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124 vs OFPF: Part Doh
- Thread starter IamGroot
- Start date
I started out using Simandl fingering (124) on both DB and BG. A few years into being a pro it became apparent the I could develop more speed and play certain fast, technical lines cleaner on BG if I transitioned to OFPF. Simultaneously to this I transitioned to 5-string and then 6-string BG. I continued to play DB and BG for over 20 years with completely different fingering systems. I am retired now and don't have access to a DB.
My BG technique is primarily OFPF, but for various things I also shift back into Simandl fingering. For example when I am slapping, my fingering is much closer to Simandl. I have also noted that some of my finger patterns seem to be using microshifts. Basically I use all four fingers independently but sometimes make choices that avoid extending/taxing the hand as much as OFPF.
What I will say is I would definitely not use Simandl fingering for the line in the example.
The obvious advantage of OFPF is when you are playing a line that is close to your limit, any shift you need to make tends to slow you down. An awkward shift can make it impossible to play the line cleanly. The use of OFPF greatly reduces the number of shifts that are required. Also if you choose wisely, necessary shifts can typically be made smaller, so they are faster. IMHO if you don't play fast, technical music there is probably no practical advantage to OFPF that warrants the effort to learn it and justifies the potential risk it may pose to your fretting hand.
The most serious problem with OFPF is it place more stress on the hand and wrist. There are certain minor patterns that stress my hand when I play low on my Yamaha TRB6P. Also how the strings are centered over the player's body has an impact; I.E. how far you have to reach with your fretting hand. Here is a post I previously wrote on the subject: LH - Use of ring finger vs pinky (one finger per fret?)
My BG technique is primarily OFPF, but for various things I also shift back into Simandl fingering. For example when I am slapping, my fingering is much closer to Simandl. I have also noted that some of my finger patterns seem to be using microshifts. Basically I use all four fingers independently but sometimes make choices that avoid extending/taxing the hand as much as OFPF.
What I will say is I would definitely not use Simandl fingering for the line in the example.
The obvious advantage of OFPF is when you are playing a line that is close to your limit, any shift you need to make tends to slow you down. An awkward shift can make it impossible to play the line cleanly. The use of OFPF greatly reduces the number of shifts that are required. Also if you choose wisely, necessary shifts can typically be made smaller, so they are faster. IMHO if you don't play fast, technical music there is probably no practical advantage to OFPF that warrants the effort to learn it and justifies the potential risk it may pose to your fretting hand.
The most serious problem with OFPF is it place more stress on the hand and wrist. There are certain minor patterns that stress my hand when I play low on my Yamaha TRB6P. Also how the strings are centered over the player's body has an impact; I.E. how far you have to reach with your fretting hand. Here is a post I previously wrote on the subject: LH - Use of ring finger vs pinky (one finger per fret?)
I use one finger per fret. Matter of fact, tho my hands are kinda small, when I was young I was taught by a few accomplished players. They suggested developing my hands to cover 5 frets per string, or, chromatically, covering the full range of notes before the next string is needed, but that gives you choices as to when I involve the next string. My hand can reach, easily, the 1st thru 5th frets on my low B on my 5s and 6s, which I use exclusively, but I ignore my B for 4 string lines.
This example is no different. One finger per fret, tho I can skip frets between any two fingers. An example is if frets 2-7 are needed, I can skip a fret on any string with any finger to set my hand up for a shift. Either backward or forward, toward the nut or the bridge.
Hard to explain in words. But my hand covers any 5 fret span at any position on any string. Gives me a lotta choices on how and where I play licks or runs. And it sets me up for about anything I encounter. I can play a chromatic run from low B to its fourth fret, open E to it's 4th fret, open A to its, etc. I can also play a chromatic riff from Low C, 1st position on B, clear across the strings using no open strings, or, add an open string to ease my use of the lick. One choice of that would be my pinky slides from fret 4 to 5, my first finger reaches back to the first fret of the next string, and the pattern resumes. Now, this is part of my practice routine. Chromatically, covering 5 frets, or diatonically, covering 5 frets, but choosing which finger skips the fret, and that choice is based on what fingering I wish for the next string, or, to set up shifts. In real world practicality, this makes any lick easily done anywhere on a fingerboard, with any lick or run. Which was my intent. I learned an awful lot of guitar lines on my bass. I was a metalhead in the beginning of my "career", and highly influenced by fast, aggressive playing, be it fusion, metal, classical, et al. And, bluegrass banjo. I'm not so concerned over the particular "technique" needed for fast runs; Simandl, OFPF, I just learn the lick as written, then apply my technique to rewrite the line to fit me, then play it as I do. Getting the lick to sound right is my goal. For me, that isn't always how it was originally played. And, this helps me totally eliminate the use of open strings, if the specific tone of an open string sounds out of place. Regardless, I cover 5 frets per string with my left hand. Then figure out the fingering I need for any specific lick.
This example is no different. One finger per fret, tho I can skip frets between any two fingers. An example is if frets 2-7 are needed, I can skip a fret on any string with any finger to set my hand up for a shift. Either backward or forward, toward the nut or the bridge.
Hard to explain in words. But my hand covers any 5 fret span at any position on any string. Gives me a lotta choices on how and where I play licks or runs. And it sets me up for about anything I encounter. I can play a chromatic run from low B to its fourth fret, open E to it's 4th fret, open A to its, etc. I can also play a chromatic riff from Low C, 1st position on B, clear across the strings using no open strings, or, add an open string to ease my use of the lick. One choice of that would be my pinky slides from fret 4 to 5, my first finger reaches back to the first fret of the next string, and the pattern resumes. Now, this is part of my practice routine. Chromatically, covering 5 frets, or diatonically, covering 5 frets, but choosing which finger skips the fret, and that choice is based on what fingering I wish for the next string, or, to set up shifts. In real world practicality, this makes any lick easily done anywhere on a fingerboard, with any lick or run. Which was my intent. I learned an awful lot of guitar lines on my bass. I was a metalhead in the beginning of my "career", and highly influenced by fast, aggressive playing, be it fusion, metal, classical, et al. And, bluegrass banjo. I'm not so concerned over the particular "technique" needed for fast runs; Simandl, OFPF, I just learn the lick as written, then apply my technique to rewrite the line to fit me, then play it as I do. Getting the lick to sound right is my goal. For me, that isn't always how it was originally played. And, this helps me totally eliminate the use of open strings, if the specific tone of an open string sounds out of place. Regardless, I cover 5 frets per string with my left hand. Then figure out the fingering I need for any specific lick.
Hmmm... the only other OSPF that comes to mind is in an entirely different field... computer network routing protocols.
You noticed setting up the shift at the end of the first beat in measure 3. Cool.
I would use your fingering if I wanted the darker tone of the D on the E string, but I tried it and found the contrast too much. In the context of this particular run I preferred the sonority of the A and D strings over E and A in the last measure.
That's why I buy only the Dunlop DBMMS45105 Marcus Miller Super(!) Bright(!) Bass Strings!
It's a joke!
In my original un-annotated version in post #7, the first three notes are played with a forwards extension to push 2 and 4 up a half-step compared to OFPF. In the first beat of bar 2, the 1-2 is an extension. The Bb starts as an extension, but my thumb moves up as the Bb is sounding, so by the time '4' plays the B, I've made a half-step shift with my thumb. There is another half-step thumb-shift whilst the B is sounding, to prepare for D with 1. Does this m3 between 4 and 1 count as 1-2-4 fingering? Maybe...
No, I don't need to shift (too much) anything while playing those notes.
But there is a slight movement of my hand towards the pickups.
My thumb is somewhere around Eb of A string.
And I prefer that kind of fingering because it's giving me more flexibility and more choices.
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I don't remember when I used to pay attention how should I call my fingering.
I would play a passage of
D - F# (A string), G - B (D string), C - E (G string) as 1-4,
and
D-E (A string), G-A (D string), C-D (G string) also as 1-4.
Maybe, I'm just lazy.
I don't think about it much these days either, but I don't mind a deep dive in the interests of putting more meat on the discussion.
You hand looks a little like mine, but I never have all fingers down at the same time. By the time 4 is playing the F#, 2 is off and 1 is already on its way to the A on the D string. Probably a trait I developed through playing The Stick.
I do a lot of technical exercises in that kind of fingering position.
In this particular example, I know already that I will use that fret space, I am prepared in advance ; otherwise, I am very frugal and tend to not overstretch, over-burden my fingers.
Also, as I once explained to Mushroo, it’s not (!!!) a exact finger position while playing (!), it’s a leftover position at the start of the passage while my right hand is clumsily holding a iPhone and trying to push a button to take a picture.
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I started on viola where 1,2 could be an interval of a half step or a whole step, so the fingering is not totally foreign to me. I might use the same concept on guitar, but not bass. It's just not right for me.
I can easily use your provided fingering - I am flexible(!), but, somehow, my experience interprets the fingering of the first 7 notes from your sheet as going into some cul de sac/dead end, and it requires a bigger position shift later, but...
I am flexible to play it in various ways.
It is only my personal opinion and explanation - nothing to discuss or to change.
That's exactly how I saw it.
I remember my younger days when we used to play a lot of classical opuses, especially Bach.
And there were some passages that would require some "premeditated" fingering planning in order to transfer some tutti (orchestral)passages from the piano/Organ onto the 4-string bass guitar.
And my friend, a classical composer, would suggest instead of jumping higher(ascending), play it one octave lower on the bass. And it sounded unusually-interesting.
Let's take IamGroot's example and play it as (ascending) D major scale
D and E (on the A string as fingers 2 and 4), F# and G (on the D string as 1 and 2), and A A# B (as fingers 1, 2, 4) on the E string, ending on the D of the A string.
You can call it a remedy of the melody by inversion, or Octave displacement/a pragmatic rationale to use Octave displacement.
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The sheet music "provided fingering" is not the way I would do it either. But he's a guitarist, it would be fruitless to argue.
Your 1-2 stretch is amazing. Thanks. It is something I never do and thought of before. HMMM....My stretching is all in the pinkie.
Here is one of a numerous similar exercises I do at home, that includes string crossing, sliding, stretching, etc...
I don't have enough time to comfortably "dilly dally", I'm too old for "endangering my hand
(I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT ANYBODY ELSE!!!); therefore, it's only my personal vision.
I've marked it as 74BPM, but I tend to play it much slower even around 30BPM
, in order to feel the value of each note, its articulation, sliding, etc...
A two-measure exercise with either ascending and/or descending along the fretboard.
Here is soundclip from GP.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...2/?temp_hash=133bbdee2aecb0df2daec4a33f89a323
