12's In The Subs!

[fokof]

Here's an example of a Bill Fitzmaurice using a common 12" 2012lf versus a Mackie/EAW 18" design

That's exactly my point.

If you compare stuff from different manufacturer , wich will (obviously) use different design , you WILL end up with different reading.
10,12,15, whatever

As an example , check these three models , same maker , same series , same cabinet design , a Invalid Link Removed, a Invalid Link Removed and a Invalid Link Removed
the 18 " has a lower response , that's normal ....

Check the charts from these example , and draw the conclusion you want.....

 

[fokof]

Well of course a single 18 will be louder than a single 12 of the same par.

Thank you , that's the only thing I meant.
That's what I mean by " size matters"

My point is there is nothing about a speaker's size that limits its ability to reproduce lower frequencies. An example was made by someone else in an earlier post in this thread: two 12's have close to the same surface area as an 18. Add a third 12 and - all other things being equal- that 12"-driver-based cabinet would be much more efficient than the 18-based cabinet.

I agree completely

 

[shoot-r]

O.P. here..........

After a lot of consideration about everyone's replies to this thread, I think Moody "has it" as to what's happening on our live, furnished FOH, stages.

Some of the soundmen we work with believe their mixing the bass drum for a reggae band and not a new country band.


Thanks to all for your comments.........






..........

O.P. here.........

Did another outdoor show yesterday afternoon with furnished FOH.

Cabinets we're all powered E.V.'s and a Mackie board.
Two 18" driver loaded subs on each side of stage located down on the ground, two 15" driver and horn top cabs on stands on each side of stage.
Large, wooden, open underneath stage.
Brand new zingy strings on the old Jazz.

Low end was MUD out front and even worse on stage.

Worst, on stage bass sound I've had.
The mud was totally washing out my on stage bass amp's high-end/clarity.
(My stage amp is a G.K. MB-800, contour off, treble 12:30'ish, high mids 12:30'ish, low mids 12:00, bass, 11:00. Cabinets are two, ported, 210 cabinets with horns stacked as a vertical 410. Casters on the bottom 210 cabinet, so cabinets are not directly setting on the stage.)

I've been doing furnished FOH jobs for years and years, maybe I've been truly deaf or something in the past, but I don't recall having this much trouble in years gone by before every sound company started incorporating 18" driver loaded subs.

I'm open to any and all suggestions including what I might ask of the sound co. to help with this.




.........

 

[modulusman]

Doesn't matter what size subs they are using. The problem is the idiot behind the board. Probably grew up listening to rap/crap and EDM in his car with massive subwoofers so he thinks that is what music is suppose to sound like.

 

[shoot-r]

Doesn't matter what size subs they are using. The problem is the idiot behind the board. Probably grew up listening to rap/crap and EDM in his car with massive subwoofers so he thinks that is what music is suppose to sound like.

You maybe right.....

In the past 7 or 8 weeks we've worked with 5 different sound company's.
With the exception of one company that wasn't using 18" loaded subs the low end has been a muddy rumble or close to it.

Not sure what the remedy for this will be, but I'm going to find it....yesterday's job wasn't even fun with my bass sounding like that.






....

 

[moody]

It may be that the sound company that uses 12's listens with their eyes as well. They know what they want and bought 12's because they could do the job.

Maybe they have an instruction to their employees that if they blow a sub it comes out of their wages?

I personally would use a good quality 12 or a good quality 18, before I would use a bad quality of either.

 

[fokof]

Not sure what the remedy for this will be, but I'm going to find it

Hire a good soundman just once.
With whatever subs.

 

[Munjibunga]

I had a pair of EAW SBX-220 subs that were incredible. Each had two diagonally-opposed 12-inch drivers. The subs were rated at 1,400 watts each, and I ran a QSC PLX-2402 bridged to each one (EAW recommends 1.5 to 2 times the rated power of the cabs). They were very loud and they were the tightest subs I've ever heard. Because they weigh 105 pounds each, I eventually sold them (to a Filipino church in San Francisco).

 

[walterw]

I'm open to any and all suggestions including what I might ask of the sound co. to help with this.

how about "could you please maybe not suck at your job?"

the size of the drivers in the sub cabs really has nothing to do with it.