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16th Note Finger Funkers?
- Thread starter ebozzz
- Start date
Brad Johnson said:IMO Jamerson may have been the first
No, he didn't play in a constant unwavering 16th note style but he did play 16ths and he was indeed funky.
Yes, he used one finger... doesn't mean he couldn't or didn't play 16ths. He did, very well.
Agree 100%.
"Darling Dear", "I Was Made To Love Her", "Home Cookin'", "I Heard It Through The Grapevine"(Gladys Knight version), "I Know I'm Losing You", "Can't Get Next To You", etc.
JJ was very busy!
More 1/16th note Funkers-
Bootsy
Wooten
Keith Horne
Randy Tico(played a fretless P-J bass back in the '70s. Even then his grooves reminded me of '70s Jaco).
Baghiti Kumalo(pretty decent Jaco 'impression' can be found on San Bonan)
Alain Caron
Adam Nitti
Marcus Miller
Jimmy Haslip
Will Lee
Bobby Vega(subbed for Rocco in TOP. No fingers, Vega uses a pick)
If we're talking the "Come On, Come Over"/"Barbary Coast" sorta 1/16th note convoluted groove that Bruce cited-
IMO, the 'best' I've heard...
Oteil
Willis
Matthew Garrison(especially on Herbie's Future2Future DVD).
Bootsy
Wooten
Keith Horne
Randy Tico(played a fretless P-J bass back in the '70s. Even then his grooves reminded me of '70s Jaco).
Baghiti Kumalo(pretty decent Jaco 'impression' can be found on San Bonan)
Alain Caron
Adam Nitti
Marcus Miller
Jimmy Haslip
Will Lee
Bobby Vega(subbed for Rocco in TOP. No fingers, Vega uses a pick)
If we're talking the "Come On, Come Over"/"Barbary Coast" sorta 1/16th note convoluted groove that Bruce cited-
IMO, the 'best' I've heard...
Oteil
Willis
Matthew Garrison(especially on Herbie's Future2Future DVD).
Brad Johnson said:IMO Jamerson may have been the first
No, he didn't play in a constant unwavering 16th note style but he did play 16ths and he was indeed funky.
Yes, he used one finger... doesn't mean he couldn't or didn't play 16ths. He did, very well.
I'm not going to deny what you're saying. He was "the first" in a lot of ways, and he had a huge influence on most of the other bassists that people have mentioned. I just don't quite put him in the category of a 16th note funk bass player. It's true that he was funky, and played a lot of 16th notes, but when I hear the term "16th note funk", I think of a bass line made of almost all16th notes, which Jamerson's bass lines usually weren't.
JimK said:Hi Charles-
A lot of the stuff on those 2 records I would put in the 1/8th note Funk category.
Those 1/8th notes are more dominant but on those two discs "Pops" seems to go on runs where the 1/16ths come into to play. But hey, since I'm a late bloomer so to speak, I'm still trying to get this music theory together on my end. I may very well be mistaken. I guess that the next question would be what is the working definition of a true 1/16th note funkster? Jacob seems to have an interesting point of view where he feels the overall majority of the notes need to be comprised of the 1/16 variety. That's very logical but is that it?
Let's face it though. I can't think any of the people named in the preceding posts that played 1/16ths exclusively. Could it be be that it's more of an issue of how the music feels rather than how frequently 1/16ths are played? Brad, Jim, Bruce & others......Educate me!
Kid Charlemagne said:I'm doubtful about your being familiar with Paul Jacksons work. If you listen to Herbie Hancocks "Thrust" I am pretty sure you will agree that he has a very pronounced 16th note feel when playing uptempo numbers.
With all respect.
I've got that album and have listened to it a lot - very funky, often slow - but not what I think of as 16th note finger funk...what do Jim and Brad think?
Bruce Lindfield said:
Well, our opinions seem to differ. But I didn't think we were talking about speed here, we were talking about 16th note feel, correct me if I'm wrong.
JimK said:
I think Jim knows what I mean - this is what I think of, when somebody asks that question - but as has been mentioned, nobody has clearly defined this "sub-genre", really.
ebozzz said:Let's face it though. I can't think any of the people named in the preceding posts that played 1/16ths exclusively. Could it be be that it's more of an issue of how the music feels rather than how frequently 1/16ths are played? Brad, Jim, Bruce & others......Educate me!
For me, it's about feel...when it feels like the 1/16th note is the subdivision being 'counted'. That means it could be but a few 1/16th notes peppered with a lotta 1/16th note rests. Right now, I'm thinking someone like Me'Shell.
I do see where Jacob is coming from, though...and I don't really disagree with him.
Should I run for office?
JimK said:Jackson on Herbie's Thrust?
Funky as Hell. So Funky it'll hurt ya!
"Actual Proof"!
Thank you Jim!
JimK said:Jackson on Herbie's Thrust?
Funky as Hell. So Funky it'll hurt ya!
"Actual Proof"!
Oh - I've been saying all through that he is one of the funkiest players ever and his feel is incredible and he plays some great lines.
But it is very different from a Jaco,Willis, Oteil fast 16th note funk lines, where I am thinking - how could they play that - that's impossible!!
So - to take that track "Actual Proof" - there is a great funky riff that is based on subdividing the bar into 16ths - but there is also a lot of space around it, so it's not that hard to play and I can imagine playing all those lines. So - in the improvised parts, there are parts where he plays some 16ths for a few bars and then leaves a lot of space - a lot of tension/release and the lines breathe.
But it's not the consistent, chops-busting, continuously bubbling lines - Jaco,Rocco, Willis etc. that I think of when somebody brings this subject up.
To forward the thread, I should also give credit to some British players who can do this - Norman Watts-Roy, Franc O' Shea and Laurence Cottle.
Bruce Lindfield said:Oh - I've been saying all through that he is one of the funkiest players ever and his feel is incredible and he plays some great lines.
But it is very different from a Jaco,Willis, Oteil fast 16th note funk lines, where I am thinking - how could they play that - that's impossible!!
So - to take that track "Actual Proof" - there is a great funky riff that is based on subdividing the bar into 16ths - but there is also a lot of space around it, so it's not that hard to play and I can imagine playing all those lines. So - in the improvised parts, there are parts where he plays some 16ths for a few bars and then leaves a lot of space - a lot of tension/release and the lines breathe.
But it's not the consistent, chops-busting, continuously bubbling lines - Jaco,Rocco, Willis etc. that I think of when somebody brings this subject up.
To forward the thread, I should also give credit to some British players who can do this - Norman Watts-Roy, Franc O' Shea and Laurence Cottle.
Alright - then we can agree on the fact that Paul Jackson is a player who is funky and plays with a 16th note feel on a lot of songs.
What I find a bit curious is that you in a way seem to measure funkiness in the level of technical complexity that a players' basslines contain.
Also, feel free to record and post your interpretation of Paul Jacksons lines - I would love to hear your take on them since you think they are "not that hard to play".
I don't mean to pick on you Bruce, but I think that you just might underestimate how difficult these lines are to play - especially if you want to mimic the Paul Jackson sound, with a chunky neck tele bass and super-high action.
Kid Charlemagne said:
I think that Paul Jackson is one of the funkiest bass players ever, but it's just a different kind of funk than Jaco, Rocco, and Gary Willis. His sound is very unrefinded in a cool way. You're also right. I've tried playing some of his lines, and their not easy. But, his bass lines were nothing like "Come on Come Over" or "What is Hip" which is sort of the thing I think of when I think 16th note funk. Not exclusively 16th notes, but a lot of them. I guess it's a little bit of a stretch for me to put Paul Jackson in that category, because he had such a distinctive sound, but I can see why other people might. Then again, Jaco, Rocco, and Gary Willis also have pretty distinct sounds.
Asaf said:the amazing Kai Eckhardt -
check out the new Garaj Mahal album.
....Or on John McLaughlin's Que Alegria and Live at the Royal Festival Hall.
I distinctly remember him on the live album about to launch into a solo with a barrage of 16th on an open string before he opened a can of whoop-ass... Oh, yeah he was gigging on a double necked headless David King at that time...
