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1x12 , 2x8 , 1xtweeter...ladies and germs...

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My thoughts exactly.

If my other non-GB cab ever sells in the classifieds here I will own the Quad.
I can imagine this cab with the Uber 210 being something special!!

The Shuttle 9 will pump 500watts into the Uber Quad. This could truly be a nice
small club rig of a total combined weight of 59 lbs!!

The Shuttle MAX 12 will put 375 watts into the Quad. Pair it up with the Uber 210
or the Uber 115 and now you got 750 watts in a medium sized rig. Nice!!!

:bassist:
 
Why would separate chambers mean that the 8's are running full range?

Ralf

I assume he is talking about the 'equal power draw' of the two 8's versus the 112. Over my head, but I didn't think that, for example, the 6" drivers in other versions of these types of cabs that are crossed over significantly impacted the nominal impedance of the cab, and hence drew very little power from the power source relative to the driver.

Again, totally over my head, but I'm guessing that was what he was thinking, versus anything to do with separate tuned compartments.
 
No. The 8's are midrange drivers. When I spoke to Jeff we talked about this cabinet a little bit. And a 1350 list, well in these inflated times, is not a bad msrp considering the msrp of well, what other 3-ways are there?

I agree this with a 210 would be a nice punchy tight setup. My first big GB order is the 210 and 410 ubers. But I might just add a Quad to that mix.

I wonder if the 8's are crossed over to the same or differing freq's.
 
There you go guessing again.:D:D:D
Just razzing ya....

+1 I'm deep into these designs at the moment (from a layman's perspective and having the wonderful opportunity to play a bunch of 3 way cab variations) and am always interested in checking out the different takes. Ralf is our Detroit-area resident crossover guru (he does the Low Down Sound crossovers), so when he speaks, I listen:D

Fun to learn about this class of cab. I've learned that the crossover is just about the most important component in these types of designs. Amazing what a slight change in frequency, slope, etc. can do to these things.

However, my guess was, I'm sure correct (separate boxes have nothing to do with crossovers)... just not sure what impact that power distribution figure Roger quoted has to do with how the 8's are configured. I'm not sure the assumption that equal power delivery implies full range operation (maybe they are just lo passed or something... who knows). Again, over my head there!
 
I guess specs can be beaten to death here on TB... but the end result will be the listening test... I dont get caught up in the details. I leave that to the engineers,, of which i am not.... If it sounds good for my application thats what matters to me..
Looking forward to maybe trying pair on a gig..
 
If they are crossed mids they don't add to the power handling of a cab.

A 450 watt "thermal" 3015LF cab is a 450 watt cab, no matter how many watts the mids can take. When different drivers take different Freq ranges they don't add power handling. When drivers take content from the same freq there is added impedance and power handling.

So either this is a 300 watt cab with a pretty typical 12" driver, or it's an odd bird. Edit, or someone misspoke.
 
If they are crossed mids they don't add to the power handling of a cab.

This is not really true. The 6nd410 probably adds about 15-20% to the thermal power handling at the figure it's crossed at. It doesn't add to displacement abilities but it does add thermal.

It also depends on where things are crossed over whether they impact impedance. If you do a crossover in a sloppy fashion you can cause impedance dips or spikes well below the nominal impedance of the woofer. Above is not really a concern but below can be.

Anyway based on what I have heard so far I'm expecting the cabinet to be two 16 ohm 8s and an 8 ohm 12 run full range. That's a pretty good sensitivity match in most cases and can be a decent displacement match.

I'd like to hear more though :)
 
Yeah, I get that. I just can't imagine them going to the trouble of putting mids in separate subenclosures only to run them without a crossover in order to get another 150 watts of stated power handling. I thought I read that GB is using an OEM neo 12". It seems to me more that it's more likely they are using a custom 600 watt 12" neo and using the appropriate crossovers on the mids and tweeter. But then again, what do I know about designing a bass cabinet? ;)

Ralf


If they are crossed mids they don't add to the power handling of a cab.

A 450 watt "thermal" 3015LF cab is a 450 watt cab, no matter how many watts the mids can take. When different drivers take different Freq ranges they don't add power handling. When drivers take content from the same freq there is added impedance and power handling.

So either this is a 300 watt cab with a pretty typical 12" driver, or it's an odd bird. Edit, or someone misspoke.
 
Yeah, I get that. I just can't imagine them going to the trouble of putting mids in separate subenclosures only to run them without a crossover in order to get another 150 watts of stated power handling. I thought I read that GB is using an OEM neo 12". It seems to me more that it's more likely they are using a custom 600 watt 12" neo and using the appropriate crossovers on the mids and tweeter. But then again, what do I know about designing a bass cabinet? ;)

Ralf

I would hope that's the case, but as Rpsands indicates it seems they are all run full range, with a simple Highpass on the tweeter. That's not what I would have thought was ideal, but I am truly a newb and not a cabinet designer. I guess it's a more traditional take on the new designs. You'd think that the fact that it lacks a sophisticated crossover would help make the price lower.

I'd liek to test it out and hear it for sure.
 
I would hope that's the case, but as Rpsands indicates it seems they are all run full range, with a simple Highpass on the tweeter. That's not what I would have thought was ideal, but I am truly a newb and not a cabinet designer. I guess it's a more traditional take on the new designs. You'd think that the fact that it lacks a sophisticated crossover would help make the price lower.

I'd liek to test it out and hear it for sure.

I'm not really saying that just that it's possible. I hope to be wrong, as this was originally flown as a 3-way cabinet.

However, some aspects of the design make me suspicious that it might not be fully 3-way, and I hope to be wrong. Honestly though it's not the worst design ever to use two 16 ohm 8's and an 8 ohm 12, if that is actually what's done. It's possible for that to be done very well.
 
There are, as several of you have commented, many parameters that work together (or against each other) to generate the total or overall acoustic response of a speaker system. Each parameter has both positive and negative associations with the overall acoustic response, the design goal being to maximize the positives while minimizing the negatives and also to understand the specific contributions that each parameter contributes.

Some general parameters that were considered when designing the cabinets include the following:

1. The response of the 12” driver, considering the low end, the low mid voicing, crossover and then the impedance curve including both acoustic and electrical loading and phase response. These parameters must be suitable for combining with a midrange section without accentuating objectionable artifacts, while adding to the perceived feel of warmth and thickness yet not being overwhelming.

2. The response of the midrange section was the most difficult because the low mids must retain a reasonable phase relationship with the 12” driver throughout the crossover overlap range. This was accomplished with both acoustic and mechanical means to insure that there was minimal time offset between acoustic sources as frequency increases (to minimize midrange smearing effect) while maintaining adequate sensitivity. Additionally, we wanted to be sure that adequate loading was present on the drivers to allow them to be driven harder than a typical 3 way design if a little (speaker cone) overdrive harmonics was desired. This, of course, required a rather substantial overdesigning if the midrange section to insure adequate capacity when driven hard.

3. The tweeter section’s crossover works in conjunction with the low pass response of the midrange section and resulted in a higher crossover frequency to get desirable acoustic response. This, or course, can be adjusted to taste or turned all the way down without danger of damage to the crossover components.

4. Being as much an amp designer as a speaker designer, and knowing of the problems that some of the 3 way cabinets on the market presented to amplifiers (sub-nomimal impedance curves, inadvertent resonant excitation of class D residuals, large capacitive impedance zones), we were particularly sensitive to these issues and considered how the various crossover elements worked together to avoid the pitfalls that I have seen in (some) other designs. These interactions can play a big part in how a cabinet sounds, particularly when driven hard. In some cases, when a linear amp clips and the internal feedback control is lost, or when protective VI limiting occurs, these hidden issues can cause problems and in some instances amplifier failure. I have worked with several of you on TB with these specific issues.

5. By necessity, much more work was done with this cabinet analyzing, testing, playing, listening and adjusting various parameters so that the system would work together with a minimum of negative artifacts. We found that phase and time offsets were much more important in this kind of design, and as a result, a focus on the overall system phase and TOC response was more challenging than originally assumed. We had to approach this design a little differently than a more traditional cabinet, and used parameters that otherwise could have been ignored or discounted on other topologies to our advantage. I also researched back over 30 years to such topics as mechanical low pass filters, mechanical aperture acoustic filters, secondary TOC considerations, electro-mechanical contributions, total impedance response (including electrical, electro-mechanical and purely mechanical) and their resulting phase shifting contributions. Yes, pretty geeky stuff but ultimately fascinating too.
 
I would hope that's the case, but as Rpsands indicates it seems they are all run full range, with a simple Highpass on the tweeter. That's not what I would have thought was ideal, but I am truly a newb and not a cabinet designer. I guess it's a more traditional take on the new designs. You'd think that the fact that it lacks a sophisticated crossover would help make the price lower.

I'd liek to test it out and hear it for sure.

I dunno......seems that speculation without knowing the facts would be a bad idea to start rumors.....as is KJung about the OEM 12 and not one designed specifically for this platform.

There are, as several of you have commented, many parameters that work together (or against each other) to generate the total or overall acoustic response of a speaker system. Each parameter has both positive and negative associations with the overall acoustic response, the design goal being to maximize the positives while minimizing the negatives and also to understand the specific contributions that each parameter contributes.

Some general parameters that were considered when designing the cabinets include the following:

1. The response of the 12” driver, considering the low end, the low mid voicing, crossover and then the impedance curve including both acoustic and electrical loading and phase response. These parameters must be suitable for combining with a midrange section without accentuating objectionable artifacts, while adding to the perceived feel of warmth and thickness yet not being overwhelming.

2. The response of the midrange section was the most difficult because the low mids must retain a reasonable phase relationship with the 12” driver throughout the crossover overlap range. This was accomplished with both acoustic and mechanical means to insure that there was minimal time offset between acoustic sources as frequency increases (to minimize midrange smearing effect) while maintaining adequate sensitivity. Additionally, we wanted to be sure that adequate loading was present on the drivers to allow them to be driven harder than a typical 3 way design if a little (speaker cone) overdrive harmonics was desired. This, of course, required a rather substantial overdesigning if the midrange section to insure adequate capacity when driven hard.

3. The tweeter section’s crossover works in conjunction with the low pass response of the midrange section and resulted in a higher crossover frequency to get desirable acoustic response. This, or course, can be adjusted to taste or turned all the way down without danger of damage to the crossover components.

4. Being as much an amp designer as a speaker designer, and knowing of the problems that some of the 3 way cabinets on the market presented to amplifiers (sub-nomimal impedance curves, inadvertent resonant excitation of class D residuals, large capacitive impedance zones), we were particularly sensitive to these issues and considered how the various crossover elements worked together to avoid the pitfalls that I have seen in (some) other designs. These interactions can play a big part in how a cabinet sounds, particularly when driven hard. In some cases, when a linear amp clips and the internal feedback control is lost, or when protective VI limiting occurs, these hidden issues can cause problems and in some instances amplifier failure. I have worked with several of you on TB with these specific issues.

5. By necessity, much more work was done with this cabinet analyzing, testing, playing, listening and adjusting various parameters so that the system would work together with a minimum of negative artifacts. We found that phase and time offsets were much more important in this kind of design, and as a result, a focus on the overall system phase and TOC response was more challenging than originally assumed. We had to approach this design a little differently than a more traditional cabinet, and used parameters that otherwise could have been ignored or discounted on other topologies to our advantage. I also researched back over 30 years to such topics as mechanical low pass filters, mechanical aperture acoustic filters, secondary TOC considerations, electro-mechanical contributions, total impedance response (including electrical, electro-mechanical and purely mechanical) and their resulting phase shifting contributions. Yes, pretty geeky stuff but ultimately fascinating too.

Yeah, but what does it sound like Andy?!??!?
 
I would hope that's the case, but as Rpsands indicates it seems they are all run full range, with a simple Highpass on the tweeter. That's not what I would have thought was ideal, but I am truly a newb and not a cabinet designer. I guess it's a more traditional take on the new designs. You'd think that the fact that it lacks a sophisticated crossover would help make the price lower.

I'd liek to test it out and hear it for sure.

I dunno......seems that speculation without knowing the facts would be a bad idea to start rumors.....as is KJung about the squirrel not being part of the rodent family.

There are, as several of you have commented, many parameters that work together (or against each other) to generate the total or overall acoustic response of a speaker system. Each parameter has both positive and negative associations with the overall acoustic response, the design goal being to maximize the positives while minimizing the negatives and also to understand the specific contributions that each parameter contributes.

Some general parameters that were considered when designing the cabinets include the following:

1. The response of the 12” driver, considering the low end, the low mid voicing, crossover and then the impedance curve including both acoustic and electrical loading and phase response. These parameters must be suitable for combining with a midrange section without accentuating objectionable artifacts, while adding to the perceived feel of warmth and thickness yet not being overwhelming.

2. The response of the midrange section was the most difficult because the low mids must retain a reasonable phase relationship with the 12” driver throughout the crossover overlap range. This was accomplished with both acoustic and mechanical means to insure that there was minimal time offset between acoustic sources as frequency increases (to minimize midrange smearing effect) while maintaining adequate sensitivity. Additionally, we wanted to be sure that adequate loading was present on the drivers to allow them to be driven harder than a typical 3 way design if a little (speaker cone) overdrive harmonics was desired. This, of course, required a rather substantial overdesigning if the midrange section to insure adequate capacity when driven hard.

3. The tweeter section’s crossover works in conjunction with the low pass response of the midrange section and resulted in a higher crossover frequency to get desirable acoustic response. This, or course, can be adjusted to taste or turned all the way down without danger of damage to the crossover components.

4. Being as much an amp designer as a speaker designer, and knowing of the problems that some of the 3 way cabinets on the market presented to amplifiers (sub-nomimal impedance curves, inadvertent resonant excitation of class D residuals, large capacitive impedance zones), we were particularly sensitive to these issues and considered how the various crossover elements worked together to avoid the pitfalls that I have seen in (some) other designs. These interactions can play a big part in how a cabinet sounds, particularly when driven hard. In some cases, when a linear amp clips and the internal feedback control is lost, or when protective VI limiting occurs, these hidden issues can cause problems and in some instances amplifier failure. I have worked with several of you on TB with these specific issues.

5. By necessity, much more work was done with this cabinet analyzing, testing, playing, listening and adjusting various parameters so that the system would work together with a minimum of negative artifacts. We found that phase and time offsets were much more important in this kind of design, and as a result, a focus on the overall system phase and TOC response was more challenging than originally assumed. We had to approach this design a little differently than a more traditional cabinet, and used parameters that otherwise could have been ignored or discounted on other topologies to our advantage. I also researched back over 30 years to such topics as mechanical low pass filters, mechanical aperture acoustic filters, secondary TOC considerations, electro-mechanical contributions, total impedance response (including electrical, electro-mechanical and purely mechanical) and their resulting phase shifting contributions. Yes, pretty geeky stuff but ultimately fascinating too.

Yeah, but what does it sound like Andy?!??!?

In all honesty, where does it sit in the line up?
What hole does if fill/market does it reach to?
Besides being small, loud and good sounding?
 
It addresses specifically those folks who like a more complex, maybe more "sophisticated" midrange character of a 3 way cabinet.

This kind of stuff is hard for me to describe without sounding more like a marketing guy (which I am not) rather than a technical guy. Each player would probably describe the sound in a different way anyhow, so that's my attempt.
 
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