2 50 watt 12" combos?

[-Asdfgh-]

It may be quite a while before I know anything at this point. My expertise and experience lies mainly in high end home audio.

When I hear people say that their Rumble 100 (1-12) performs adequately in the type of performances I speak of, should we be taking this with a huge grain of salt?

People have different definitions of accurate, and their descriptions may also be a bit off, so it's hard to compare. I started off with 60W into a 12" and it was inadequate in a 80 (when packed) capacity room if it needed to be loud. 130W into 2 10" wasn't hugely better. 350W into 2x10" or 300W into 1x15 (roughly the same overall sensitivity in these cases) was fine. I prefer something a bit quieter now in terms of gigs, but it's handy to have the extra power if required.

 

[DaveParker39]

Get something like one of the VT pedals and put it in front of the Hartke.

Or better yet, the FX return if it has one.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I have an Orange Crush Bass 50 combo amp, and I have been thinking about buying another in order to double up on the wattage and cone area.

My thinking is that one 50 watt amp may not be enough for gigs of reasonable volume (Jazz, Blues-rock), but 2 will (100 x 2-12).

I have a 200 watt Hartke amp that I can buy cabs for. But I am tired of it's overly clean and sterile sound.

I like the sound of my Orange, and don't want to invest a lot of money into something I may of may not need some day. What do you think?

Note: I did post this question in the combo club, but it is slow moving, and I am looking for a broader pool of response.

Yeah, go for it. Just run out the fx loop of the one you I use plugged into, into the fx loop of the other one. Match the volume knobs, done deal.

 

[capnjagg]

Will it work? Yes. Will it be louder? Yes. Will it be everything you want? No idea, but it’s worth trying.

Alternate suggestion, if you’re on a budget, try something like a Joyo Oxford in front of the Hartke/into the effects loop. It’ll give you the power of the Hartke, but with the Orange tone you dig so much. Much cheaper solution than a second amp.

 

[The Great Genius]

I can’t tell if your Hartke is a combo or a head and if it is a head I can’t tell if you already have a cabinet.

It's a seperate amp that originally came in a 15" combo. It is identical internally to the current HA3500 save for the lack of DI/effects loop, and has a less powerful amp module, but adds built in rack ears.

The only cab I currently have is an Eden EX110, which sounds really sterile with this amp.

 

[The Great Genius]

Exactly my reaction. I was wondering what's the point of asking a question if you think you know the answer and you won't accept any other advice. Maybe this guy expects us to say: what a genius idea, how smart you are, you're amazing.

While I may have known the answer already, I do nonetheless value constructive feedback from others. Not all feedback is constructive unfortunately.

 

[The Great Genius]

mEH. Get a 500w Rumble and a pedal for some dirt.

Exessive bass, overly dry midrange. I am going to need more than added dirt for that one, plus the fact that it employs a cheap, potentially unreliable Class D module.

I had one. It broke, and didn't sound the way I needed it to when it worked.

 

[Marko 1]

......

When I hear people say that their Rumble 100 (1-12) performs adequately in the type of performances I speak of, should we be taking this with a huge grain of salt?

Yes.

 

[The Great Genius]

Yes.

So what would you bring to a small, intimate Jazz ensemble?

 

[Marko 1]

So what would you bring to a small, intimate Jazz ensemble?

That.

Then when the inevitable scenario comes up where I needed more balls,

I can come on TB and start a thread on it.

 

[groovepump]

Other posters have already pointed you in a cost-effective POTENTIAL solution, and it is one I use presently at large gigs: Take the good-sounding amp, and drive the clean amp from its effects loop out.
I am assuming the Orange has a balanced output, or an effects loop out, and that the Hartke head can accept this input (even via the instrument input jack). You would still need a cab to run the Hartke into.
I use an Ampeg BA210 combo to drive a Quilter amp this way. The Quilter becomes an 800W Ampeg-sounding
amp. It also helps to get your speaker off the ground. Try your little 50W combo set atop a stand or something.
I always get my speakers off the ground when possible. ANyway, it wont cost you anything to try something different. You can always dump your money into more equipment, and help the economy at the same time.

 

[The Great Genius]

You can always dump your money into more equipment, and help the economy at the same time.

Just about anything can be solved by throwing more money at it.

But the point of my thread was to avoid this scenario, especially since I may never have a real need for more than I currently have going forward.

On the other hand, another identical combo amp can inprove upon the fullness and resolution that I hear at the barely louder than hard plucked strings volume that I play at in my small apartment!

 

[mapleglo]

I have the 50w Orange combo amp.

It's almost enough to gig with by itself. Using a splitter, like the P-Split, 2 of these combos would be enough for a reasonable gigging setup, assuming you play with a drummer that has a light hand, and a sane guitarist.

 

[agedhorse]

plus the fact that it employs a cheap, potentially unreliable Class D module.

Except that it has one of the most reliable class D modules on the market. Don't know where you get your information from, but in this case it's not accurate.

 

[The Great Genius]

Except that it has one of the most reliable class D modules on the market. Don't know where you get your information from, but in this case it's not accurate.

I said potentially, which I would say for all of these stinking Class D monstrosities, and mine failed so I couldn't be too far off bass.

 

[agedhorse]

I said potentially, which I would say for all of these stinking Class D monstrosities, and mine failed so I couldn't be too far off bass.

You are very far off base, you just don't know how far off base you are. Also, while you implied that they were "cheap", they are actually much more expensive to design and build than a conventional class AB amp. I have designed both types, I know this as a hard earned fact.

Who knows why your amp failed, it may not (and likely not) have had anything to do with the class D amp.

 

[The Great Genius]

You are very far off base, you just don't know how far off base you are. Also, while you implied that they were "cheap", they are actually much more expensive to design and build than a conventional class AB amp. I have designed both types, I know this as a hard earned fact.

Who knows why your amp failed, it may not (and likely not) have had anything to do with the class D amp.

Once again, I going to have to call you out on this one. A competantly designed Class A/AB amp has a real, beefy power supply which costs more in parts than any Class D module cost to make that I have seen (and most have skimpy power supplies).

Furthermore, I have seen endless failures of Class D modules since they have been introduced to the consumer market, failures that conventional amps are not prone to.

And yes, it was the module in my amp that failed. I tested the amp myself (preamp was 100% functional).

 

[agedhorse]

Again, the switchmode power supplies are actually much more robust than the conventional line frequency power supplies used in most class AB amps. Much more robust with much lower source impedance (approaching zero on the current generation). They are smaller because they operate at a much higher frequency so the transformer can be smaller and DC rails are recharged 1000 times more often. The bulk caps can be lower value for the same or higher energy storage because they operate at a higher voltage. Energy storage is a function of the square of the voltage.

Since I have designed both types of amps commercially, I can say with 100% certainty that for anything except the lowest power amps, quality class D amps cost more to design and certify than the same quality class AB amp.

I have the reliability metrics for the module used in your amp, I have used it in some past products, and the failure rate over a 3 year rolling time period is consistently less that 1%. This is in general better than equivalent class AB amps.

This is all factual stuff, been discussed here before by multiple knowledgeable folks, some in this industry, with exactly the same information.

 

[The Great Genius]

Again, the switchmode power supplies are actually much more robust than the conventional line frequency power supplies used in most class AB amps.

I consider these types of power supplies to be a cheap parlor trick. But to each his own.

Since I have designed both types of amps commercially, I can say with 100% certainty that for anything except the lowest power amps, quality class D amps cost more to design and certify than the same quality class AB amp.

Which isn't the same thing as the cost to build it in production.

I have the reliability metrics for the module used in your amp, I have used it in some past products, and the failure rate over a 3 year rolling time period is consistently less that 1%. This is in general better than equivalent class AB amps.

Well good for them. My amp was an older Rumble 150 BTW.

 

[agedhorse]

The cost of an amp is the cost of design, certification and production. Design and certification aren’t free. The increased cost is a tradeoff for increased performance, decreased weight and heat.

There’s nothing “parlor trick” about it. Of course it’s more complicated and takes a greater understanding of electronics. Once you really understand how it works, it makes total sense. If you don’t or can’t understand then it won’t make sense, but that doesn’t make it a parlor trick.