2 50 watt 12" combos?

[The Great Genius]

Except that many power supplies used in many bass amps (all the current amps I have designed) include “ultra-stiff”, regulated power supplies. In fact, the source impedance of these power supplies approach zero ohms while delivering 30 amps.

That's pretty impressive.

 

[The Great Genius]

Snake oil... natures universal lubricant

Ultra pure and single crystal cables don't have to cost a fortune.

I choose to use my $1200 Cardas interconnects and $600 power cables because I like the sound of them.

 

[agedhorse]

All the power to you!

 

[Callused Finger]

Go for it. Do what you want to do.

ABY pedal between the amplifiers.

 

[The Great Genius]

Go for it. Do what you want to do.

ABY pedal between the amplifiers.

I have been thinking about one more for now to tide me over, then two more later to satisfy my lust for a 4-12 setup.

That should take care of any situation that I am likely to find myself in.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I have been thinking about one more for now to tide me over, then two more later to satisfy my lust for a 4-12 setup.

That should take care of any situation that I am likely to find myself in.

The good news about that approach, is if you buy the other three used, then when you tire of the hassle, you can sell the extras without losing much on depreciation.

I used to run a pair of Rumble/Rad bass 25’s as a 2*10 stack for small gigs. A few years later, back trouble forced me to downsize my big rig to an AudioKinesis TC112 and one of @agedhorse’s designs (a Streamliner 900 tube/Class D hybrid, not the Mesa Boogie Subway series or the other amps he designed during his tenure at Genz-Benz).

The AudioKinesis cab features a complex, beautifully designed crossover, a custom 4 ohm Eminence Kappalite variant, a radial horn with a high-power compression driver, and variable porting. It weighs just under 32lb.

Having a 40lb compact rig that happily provided 450W continuous/900W peak and could keep up with Bam-Bam the rock drummer was a bit of an eye opener.

Now I could do most of my gigs with one cab, and only rent a fridge or a G-K Neo 4*12 for festivals or gigs that required the extra visual presence. Best of all, my low B was richer and the dispersion better than any of the big rigs I had lugged around over the previous 40-odd years- even at low volumes.

As a high-end home audio designer and someone who enjoys Cardas interconnects, I’m sure that you can appreciate that once I had a truly high-end, compact, one hand-carry, it seemed kind of stupid to be lugging a pair of ratty $100 class AB Fender practice amps into folk clubs and church basements.

In audiophile terms, that would be like having a bunch of vintage Macintosh gear and boutique speakers in my listening room, but switching to a boombox whenever I fired up the video projector.

I promptly gave the Rad bass to a student, and sold the Rumble.

 

[Nebadon2000]

I agree that he should try the Orange amp to see if it gets what he needs.

My comments about the audiophile market is based on designing products for that market, then having the marketing guys turn it into something it wasn’t, nor could be.

$10k speaker cables, $1k power receptacles, $5k power cords, magic crystal mounting feet, speaker cable supports, markers for CD edges, spiritual upgrades. C’mon, give us (all) a break and stick to science and not snake oil.

Note that there are quite a few experienced engineers and a few amp designers on this forum, that may be why you received the comments you did. I’m sure they were not intended to be rude.

I Agree with what you have said here about marketing but most designers I met were purposeful and had Integrity and belief in their designs; Marketing/sales got them sold. As with most products not just Instrument or Music arena.

Mesa at one time marketed their Guitar Amps promoting 'Tube Power' over SS Power not so much now with Gibson site.

A lot of 'Snake Oil/Propaganda' in Home Audio came from industry Magazines IE: The Absolute Sound and Stereophile

Also I may be wrong but your comment "that explains it' is equivalent to rolling your eye's

 

[The Great Genius]

As a high-end home audio designer and someone who enjoys Cardas interconnects, I’m sure that you can appreciate that once I had a truly high-end, compact, one hand-carry, it seemed kind of stupid to be lugging a pair of ratty $100 class AB Fender practice amps into folk clubs and church basements.

In audiophile terms, that would be like having a bunch of vintage Macintosh gear and boutique speakers in my listening room, but switching to a boombox whenever I fired up the video projector.

Well, I wouldn't be wasting my time with this combo amp if it wasn't for the fact that I am finally getting the sound from it that I had always been looking for.

An amp that can outpower everything in the universe is something that I don't require at this point.

Think of this amp as a low powered triode tube setup that gives me more satisfaction than any high powered SS system can.

I am an old cripple who only dreams about playing live gigs these days, and I don't even have a band.

But it does somehow satisfy me to have a setup that is useful for modest gigs just in case. Do you see my point?

 

[agedhorse]

The good news about that approach, is if you buy the other three used, then when you tire of the hassle, you can sell the extras without losing much on depreciation.

I used to run a pair of Rumble/Rad bass 25’s as a 2*10 stack for small gigs. A few years later, back trouble forced me to downsize my big rig to an AudioKinesis TC112 and one of @agedhorse’s designs (a Streamliner 900 tube/Class D hybrid, not the Mesa Boogie Subway series or the other amps he designed during his tenure at Genz-Benz).

The AudioKinesis cab features a complex, beautifully designed crossover, a custom 4 ohm Eminence Kappalite variant, a radial horn with a high-power compression driver, and variable porting. It weighs just under 32lb.

Having a 40lb compact rig that happily provided 450W continuous/900W peak and could keep up with Bam-Bam the rock drummer was a bit of an eye opener.

Now I could do most of my gigs with one cab, and only rent a fridge or a G-K Neo 4*12 for festivals or gigs that required the extra visual presence. Best of all, my low B was richer and the dispersion better than any of the big rigs I had lugged around over the previous 40-odd years- even at low volumes.

The Streamliner is 900 watts RMS, 1800 watts peak into your 4 ohm load.

I Agree with what you have said here about marketing but most designers I met were purposeful and had Integrity and belief in their designs; Marketing/sales got them sold. As with most products not just Instrument or Music arena.

Mesa at one time marketed their Guitar Amps promoting 'Tube Power' over SS Power not so much now with Gibson site.

A lot of 'Snake Oil/Propaganda' in Home Audio came from industry Magazines IE: The Absolute Sound and Stereophile

Also I may be wrong but your comment "that explains it' is equivalent to rolling your eye's

That explains it means that his previous comments now make sense within the context of the audiophile hi-fi industry, another industry that I am familiar with, but with a different experience.

Last I checked, we are talking about bass guitar gear here, and this is not an audiophile forum. I would never go to an audiophile forum and suggest something intentionally wrong just to start an argument.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I am an old cripple who only dreams about playing live gigs these days, and I don't even have a band.

But it does somehow satisfy me to have a setup that is useful for modest gigs just in case. Do you see my point?

Hah! I knew if we beat our respective drums long enough and hard enough, we'd find something we have in common.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

That explains it means that his previous comments now make sense within the context of the audiophile hi-fi industry...

FYI... This is exactly how I interpreted "That explains it..." when I first read this comment.

Unlike @agedhorse who has worked extensively in the sound reinforcement field, my electronics background is in broadcasting. The common thread between these two endeavors is that everything must work. If it doesn't, the show won't go on, or the station is off the air. There is little, to no room for anything less than a robust system. So we build our systems accordingly.

In my business, I have also been exposed to the audiophile way of thinking. I understand that some people want, and can afford the very best of what is offered in high end home entertainment systems. For the end user of the equipment it's a hobby, not a business and that's just fine. We just need to keep it in perspective.

However, the diminishing returns in how much is necessary to achieve the flattest frequency response, lowest distortion, or minimal noise happens at a much faster rate than is even considered necessary or possible in my business. For someone like me, it boggles the mind to even consider things like Oxygen-free cables, or gold plated connectors offering any actual noticeable value to one's listening/viewing experience. But to each his own.

Speaking for myself, I've been doing the eye-roll over this subject for 50 years. An eye roll is about as benign of a response as one can give to anything any more. If we loose that, then what? If someone is offended by my expressing my opinion simply by changing the orientation of of my visual sensors, then I'd suggest you change the orientation of yours.

And BTW... why you staring at me anyway?

We can agree to disagree. But to interpret someone's words to mean something without the interpreter having the benefit of relevant context is IMHO when things start to break down.

 

[The Great Genius]

That explains it means that his previous comments now make sense within the context of the audiophile hi-fi industry, another industry that I am familiar with, but with a different experience.

Last I checked, we are talking about bass guitar gear here, and this is not an audiophile forum. I would never go to an audiophile forum and suggest something intentionally wrong just to start an argument.

I am a debater. Arguments are something that I like to avoid.

Misundestandings lead to such too often. I hope for better correspondance with you in the future.

 

[agedhorse]

Another thing that is often forgotten, within the context of MI and pro audio design is the principle that often, a perceived improvement in one area brings negative consequences in other areas. Global feedback improves THD numbers but decreases stability. Decreased stability changes how a signal enters, dwells and exits clipping on a cycle by cycle basis, varying with frequency too.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

The Streamliner is 900 watts RMS, 1800 watts peak into your 4 ohm load.

I was thinking in terms of the rig as a whole. The limiting factor in my case, was the AudioKinesis cab.

IME, Duke’s power ratings seemed pretty accurate, in that a 500-watt amp couldn’t push the woofer into audible distress, but the Streamliner, my G-K MB800 (bench-tested at 1KW), etc., could.

The Streamliner is long gone (too pillowy sounding for me), but the cab is still my daily driver. I no longer work with Bam Bam, and currently play through a G-K MB Fusion 500.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I am a debater. Arguments are something that I like to avoid.

Misundestandings lead to such too often. I hope for better correspondance with you in the future.

In debate, the argument is essential to defending one's position. Avoiding the argument is to lose the debate.
Are you possibly using the word "argument" as a substitution for something that means "heated disagreement"?

 

[tvbop]

I used to use a pair of daisied Rumble 100's. Light and loud.

 

[The Great Genius]

Are you possibly using the word "argument" as a substitution for something that means "heated disagreement"?

I like to think of it as being the difference between a civilized and uncivilized debate.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I like to think of it as being the difference between a civilized and uncivilized debate.

Yes. Civilized discussions utilizing logical arguments and fact are the hallmark of debates.
IMO anything else is just a pissing match.

 

[Redbrangus]

"See here. I've come here for an argument and all I'm getting are contradictions!"

"No, you're not!!"

 

[The Great Genius]

What was this thread about again?...
...oh yes, 2 Orange Crush are more delicious than 1!