2 questions about old fender bassman

[Golgo13]

Hello folks ! So were i live i see a lot of old Fender bassman head + cab between 1970-1980 on market and look very cheap like between 1000-1500 $ canadian money. So i was wondering does those amps are made for bass and have good tone and good power like let's say Fender twin reverb for guitar? I'm in search for a very powerfull amp that cut through everything

 

[Lo-E]

Those amps were originally made for bass but they're really not very good bass amps. They're great guitar amps but they're very underpowered for most bass applications (except for recording where high power is not needed).

For the same $1,000-1,500 CAD you're likely to find much more powerful gear on the used market. Bass amplification has made quantum leaps since the 1970s. As much as I love vintage guitar amps, newer bass amps are simply better.

 

[Citizen Nara]

They are good and loud but don't expect SVT loud and SVT low. Bassman is all about juicy mids and nice old school saturation, and if you plan to downtune, or play something superclean and modern sounding, forget it.

 

[Bob_Ross]

I owned an early 70s silverface Bassman 50 head when I was 15 years old.

*Fabulous* guitar amp

Serviceable bass amp

If I still owned a recording studio a Fender Bassman amp would be a cool thing to have around…as an alternative to the Ampeg B15 that would be the default go-to rig for recording bass.

But these days, I would never gig out with a Fender Bassman as my stage rig. Too underpowered and too unreliable.

 

[agedhorse]

There's so much better for bass unless that's the specific tone you are looking for.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

I'd recommend looking at old Traynors.

 

[Wasnex]

Hello folks ! So were i live i see a lot of old Fender bassman head + cab between 1970-1980 on market and look very cheap like between 1000-1500 $ canadian money. So i was wondering does those amps are made for bass and have good tone and good power like let's say Fender twin reverb for guitar? I'm in search for a very powerfull amp that cut through everything

I believe the Bassman amps from that era ranged across 50W, 70W, 100W, 135W. AFAIK the 135W is not really more powerful than the 100W, but it stays cleaner a bit a bit longer and then crosses into distortion more abruptly.

In general guitar speakers are more efficient than bass speakers. Additionally our ears or more sensitive to mids than lows. So if you are trying to keep up with a cranked Twin, you probably need considerably more power than a silverface Bassman. IMHO a better choice may be to work with guitarists who play at a more reasonable volume.

There are bassists here on TB who claim to gig with a 50W Ampeg PF50T. I personally would want at least 150W, if not more. If you want an amp that can sound a lot like a vintage Fender that makes about 150W, try an Orange AD200B Mk III. Max out the Master control and set your level with Gain control.

The sensitivity rating of your cab is just as important as the power rating of your amp. Basically doubling the power of an amp will increase the SPL by 3dB. So using a speaker with a 3dB high sensitivity rating is pretty similar to double power.

• 100W into a cab with a 100dB 1W/1m Sensitivity rating gets you ~120dB
• 200W into a cab with a 97dB 1W/1m Sensitivity rating gets you ~120dB

Also if you add a matching cab, the sensitivity rating goes up by approximately 3dB. Tube amps produce the same power as long as they see the expected load. So with a tube amp you get 3dB more headroom when you add a cab.

• 100W into a cab with a 100dB 1W/1m Sensitivity rating gets you ~120dB
• 100W into a pair of cabs with a 100dB 1W/1m Sensitivity rating gets you ~123dB

Solid state amps often make more power when the impedance goes down. Usually adding a matching cab cuts the impedance in half. Depending on the amp, the power may increase anywhere from about 160% to 200%. So you get 2-3 more dB from the increase in power.

• 100W into a cab with a 100dB 1W/1m Sensitivity rating gets you ~120dB
• 160W into a pair of cabs with a 100dB 1W/1m Sensitivity rating gets you ~125dB
• 200W into a pair of cabs with a 100dB 1W/1m Sensitivity rating gets you ~126dB

 

[gricko]

tube bassman line [from my point of view] has quite generic sound. neither here nor there.
if you also play downtuned guitar, a bit more than bass, and for whatever reason are allowed to have only one amp - 100 or 135W bassman will suit you just fine.

if not, 1000-1500 whatever monetary units in the western society should provide for much better bass amplification.

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newer bass amps are simply better

depending on the sound you have in your head.
for the better par of 20 years i was trying to find a digital or a solid state alternative to SVT or V4B without success.

power-wise - you can't really compare SS/digital specs to tubes. w/ V4B plugged into 4x10 i am on par w/ a loud guitarist using 100W JMP half stack. if i plug into 8x10, i could easily drown him.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

It depends on which exact Bassman model you're referring to, what kind of tone you want and how much output volume you need.

A 50w Bassman will probably not give you the output volume you need, except for recording. Maybe a 50w Bassman could work with a band if the band isn't very loud and if you combine it with an efficient cab. But there's a reason why bass players back in the day often left the 50w Bassman to guitar players and played 100w Fender amps like the Showman instead...

I can't remember ever testing the 135w version. I have seen it described as a bit sterile sounding, basically "too clean". But that was by GUITAR players. I don't think this would be a problem at all with bass. I suspect part of the reason for the criticism is also that the 135w version is a very different design that can't be modded to "blackface specs", which seems to be a popular thing to do with 70s Silverface Bassman amps. At least when they're used for GUITAR.

The 70s Bassman model I have the most experience with BY FAR is the Bassman 100. I have owned and regularly used one of these for over 30 years. So, here are my opinions on the Bassman 100 (mine is a late 70s):


Personally I think the Bassman 100 is a very nice bass amp, but that doesn't mean it will be a great bass amp for everyone.

The positives:

-These amps have a reputation for being built like a tanks. They are GENERALLY very reliable, especially when considering their age at this point. Mine had already seen decades of heavy use/touring when I got it (I knew the previous owner). Since then I have used it regularly for 30+ years. During these 30+ years it has never needed any kind of repairs other than replacing the output tubes (which I personally don't think of as a repair). It actually still has the original RCA preamp tubes. Personally I prefer the tone of vintage British tube amps, but when it comes to reliability the Bassman is FAR superior in my experience. If you want a problem-free, vintage tube amp, I don't think you can do much better than a 70s Bassman 100. The actual condition of the amp you're looking at will of course matter. I'm definitely NOT saying they're ALL great at this stage. Just that they're more likely to still be in good working condition than many other vintage tube amps.

-The tone. It delivers a very classic tube amp tone. It is perhaps THE tube amp tone as far as I'm concerned. Not my personal favorite, but a very classic tone. Very robust lows.

-It's a great amp for other instruments too. Excellent for clean guitars, or as a pedal platform. My favorite use is perhaps for recording Rhodes.

-It's not nearly as heavy/bulky as some other vintage, all-tube bass amps.


The negatives:

-The output volume isn't anywhere near what you would get with more powerful, modern Class D amps, or even with some other vintage tube amps. The Bassman 100 delivers more or less what I would expect from a 100w tube amp. But "100w" doesn't really say much. The max clean volume of 100w tube amps can vary a LOT. I'm not saying it's a particularly weak 100w tube amp (like the Ampeg V4BH), but it's not a particularly powerful 100w tube amp either (like the Carlsbro 100TC or a Hiwatt). Output wise the Bassman 100 sits pretty much right in the middle when compared with other 100w, vintage tube amps. I have used mine with a rather loud prog rock band, and found it SLIGHTLY lacking in output volume with that band. Usable, but not ideal. The cab I used with that band wasn't the most efficient though. The choice of cab will obviously make a huge difference. With a good, efficient cab, I think the Bassman 100 could be ok with MOST bands. But only just barely. It's not a loud amp by modern standards.

-The tone. Yes, I've listed the tone both under positives and negatives, because this depend on what kind of tone you're looking for. Personally I prefer tube amps with a strong mid presence. Not the kinda "nasal" sounding mid presence you get with an Ampeg w/8x10, but the mid presence you get with many British, vintage tube amps. The Bassman 100 won't give you that (although the choice of speakers/cab will of course matter here as well, at least to some extent). The Bassman 100 has an inherently mid-scooped tone that you can't really dial out. I always felt that I got slightly lost in "the mix" when playing with a loud band. Personally I find the "BASS" channel too boomy/scooped, so I actually prefer the "NORMAL" channel for bass. With the right tone control settings you can get a reasonable mid response out of the normal channel. I think bridging/blending the channels is also an option on the Bassman 100. On some vintage Fender amps this will sound horrible because the channels are out of phase with each other, but I'm pretty sure the channels on the Bassman 100 are in phase. But like I said, I only ever use the normal channel, so take this with a grain of salt. It's probably at least 20 years since the last time I bridged the channels on this amp, but as far as I can remember it worked fine.


If your band isn't insanely loud, and if you think a "vintage" tone with huge lows and a somewhat mid-scooped tone can work for you, I think the Bassman 100 can be a great amp, when matched with an efficient cab. A bass with a strong mid-presence, like a P-bass, can also be your friend here. I'm not sure these amps would be the best match for "modern" sounding active basses. I suspect this could get very boomy if you so much as LOOK at the active preamp bass boost.


But, you really won't know until you try...


I should probably also mention that my opinion might be slightly biased by the fact that I got mine at a time when nobody wanted Silverface Fenders (or 70s Fender guitars/basses) so I got mine for around the equivalent of $150. I'm not sure if I would have gotten one if I had to pay the prices they tend to sell for these days... But unlike 70s Fender basses, which are generally rather poor, these amps are at least generally good amps, if you like the tone and if you don't need more power.

 

[BobKos]

I had one decades ago and upgraded to a Peavey Mark IV at the first opportunity. More recently I picked one up cheap and played with it for a while. Ended up selling it off cheap. They have never done anything for me. My Mesas are GREAT bass amps. YMMV.

 

[KenB]

One thing that's important to know when trying out any of the Bassman amps of this era…

If you're using the Bass Instrument channel, it has a DEEP switch, which enhances the lower frequencies by cutting the mids and highs.

The DEEP switch on ALL of the Bassman amps, starting with the Bassman 50, is wired BACKWARDS from the factory.
That means that you get the "enhanced bass/reduced mids and highs" with the switch in the DOWN position, and the flattest response with the switch in the UP position.

I noticed the "backwards-wired switch thing" when using my Bassman 135 back in the 1980s, and confirmed my suspicions in this thread:
Bassman 135 Deep Switch - What were they thinking? (Nerd content...)

As with many threads on these forums, the four page thread goes a bit into the weeds, but stay with it…

It's nice to know how the DEEP switch works when trying for a "flat" starting tone!
A few long-time Bassman users were surprised they hadn't known….

 

[Pings Bass]

In the 80s I thought they were trash.

Nothing has happened in the intervening decades to change my opinion.

 

[Ostie]

You could get a much better amp for that kind of money.
I used to use a Dual Showman head with a closed 4x12 cab back in those days. It was just okay, nothing like an SVT or an Acoustic. These days there are so many more options available.

 

[G-Dog]

Today's Bassman amps & cabs ae SO much more powerful than the vintage models, but can get that tone, too. Even some Rumbles, combos or head & cabs, are much more powerful than the Vintage Bassman with great bass tone.

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[sunburst79]

I've got a Bassman 100. I've had the 135 watt Twin Reverb. I've had a few of the Fender tube bass combos. I've had a nice assortment of Fender tube guitar amps over the years.

Most of the other posters are spot on.

The Bassman 100 is not nearly as powerful sounding as a Twin. The stock Seth Lover designed cab is terrible. Fenders made worse Bass cabs but not many.

You can't really dial out the midrange notch. You can have loud floppy bottom or plenty of string and fret noise. Or both at the same time. If Your looking for warm punchy midrange this is not the best choice. British style heads of equivalent wattage into the same can seem twice as loud in a band setting.

That said. The 100 has a nice warm clean tone and in more subdued settings can sound nice. With a better cab. Something like an early seventies Bassman 2 15 sounds miles better than the Bassman 100 cab.

They are built like tanks. I bought mine in 1988 or so and I'm pretty sure I was the first person to pull it out of the cab to clean the pots. Since then it's had one set of output tubes put in it. Probably the most dependable amp I've owned.

It's possible that into a modern ported cab it would be more efficient. Something I should try.

If this was way back when you could pick up a minty clean one with the cab like I did for 325.00 I'd say maybe.

But with your budget you would be much better off with a new Fender Rumble or going after something larger on the used market.

The used markets full of older (And Heavy) amps no one really wants to haul. They are still good amps. Just big and heavy.

I'm back into playing some bass after a long hiatus and must say that used SWR Bass 350 and a used Goliath that set me back just under 500 USD is making me really happy. It's much louder. It's much clearer. It's got a wider variety of tones available. No one will ever call a 4 10 Goliath light. But it's a classic cab that still sounds good.

While not light both are less than the Bassman 100 cab and head.

It doesn't need to be SWR. There's GK and Ampeg and Hartke and others in this range used.

I'm one of the 3 people on the planet that actually likes the 135 watt ultralinear Twin Reverb. Mine had the best clean sound I've ever heard for guitar. I'd snap up a Bassman 135 in heartbeat but it would have to be cheap. And that train left the station decades ago. Silver Panel Fenders finally caught on.

There are better ways to spend the 1000–1500 CAD.

I did not feel the Bassman 100 made a good guitar amp. To clean. No Mids. No gain. To loud. Maybe as a pedal platform. But you'd need pedals IMO.

Not a bad amp. Just not the best budget bass amp anymore.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Today's Bassman amps & cabs ae SO much more powerful than the vintage models, but can get that tone, too. Even some Rumbles, combos or head & cabs, are much more powerful than the Vintage Bassman with great bass tone.

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You make some good points, but we need to consider the price. The only currently made all-tube Bassman (the Super Bassman) costs more than 4 times as much as a used 70s Bassman 100. The same goes for other currently made 300w tube amps. At least this is the case in my part of the world. And yes, the output tubes make a difference, so I won't even consider the hybrid Bassman 800 in this context. I have yet to play any hybrid amp that delivers the "feel" (dynamics) of an all-tube amp. As for the Rumble amps, they are good amps for what they are, but (for better or worse) they will NOT give you the classic tube amp tone/feel of a Bassman 100. Not even close.

Of course, the currently made 300w all-tube Super Bassman is a far more powerful amp than the 70s Bassman 100. But it's also a very different amp, with a different tone. For better or worse, nothing will sound like a vintage Bassman. There's also the matter of how much wattage you really need. Tube amps tend to be at their best when they're pushed close to (or beyond) the point of breakup. This is ONE of the reasons why I hate playing SVT rigs on small club stages. With SVTs on a small stage I simply cannot turn up the volume to where the amp actually sounds great. For this reason I typically bring a 100w or 200w tube amp to most gigs, depending on how much power I think I will need. With all-tube amps it's not a matter of "more power = better". It's all about finding an amp with an output volume that matches your actual needs.

And that's the reason why something like a 70s Bassman 100 can, at least for some players, be a BETTER choice than a more powerful all-tube amp.

I'm also surprised to see so many negative comments about the TONE of the Bassman 100. There's even one post than mentions the Peavey Mark IV as an upgrade on the Bassman 100. Don't get me wrong, we all have different taste and I totally respect that, but from MY point of view I honestly can't undestand how anyone would consider a Peavey Mark IV an upgrade on a Bassman 100 in any way whatsoever. I started out on one of those Peaveys. Then I got my Bassman 100 and that was IT as far as I was concerned. I instantly knew I would never play anything other than a tube amp ever again. I still don't. At least not in any situation where I can bring my own backline. No solid state or hybrid amp I've tested nso far has give me the tone, and perhaps more importantly the "feel" (dynamics) of a proper tube amp. I'm not saying one is BETTER than the other. There are certainly some advantages with modern Class D amps. I'm simply saying they're DIFFERENT, and if you're looking for the tone/feel of a tube amp, that's what you'll need.

Sure, the Bassman 100 is a bit mid scooped, which may not be ideal for all players or all styles of music. It's not even my personal favorite. Like I mentioned before, I'm more into vintage British tube amps with a stronger mid presence. But the Bassman 100 delivers a great, CLASSIC tube amp tone. The fact that I still own mine says it all for me. My old Peavey Mark IV is long gone, and I haven't missed it for a second.

For the right player, and with the right cab, a Bassman 100 can still be a FANTASTIC amp.

And just to be clear, when I say "the right cab" I definitely don't mean the original Bassman cabs from back in the day, they're very poor by today's standards. The amps are still great, the cabs are not.

 

[blr2]

A 50 watt Bassman can be a sweet all tube home practice amp. A friend of mine had one some years ago. Unfortunately, with the love they get fro guitarists, and with the vintage craze, prices will stay on the higher side. If I find one in good condition for something like Euro 500, I may grab it.

 

[ajkula66]

Hello folks ! So were i live i see a lot of old Fender bassman head + cab between 1970-1980 on market and look very cheap like between 1000-1500 $ canadian money. So i was wondering does those amps are made for bass and have good tone and good power like let's say Fender twin reverb for guitar? I'm in search for a very powerfull amp that cut through everything

The best thing to do is to test one or more of these sets and see whether you like what you hear

Then have someone *competent* look them over before the purchase should you choose to proceed, just to make sure that there are no expensive surprises awaiting.

To each their own, but I've never come across a '70s Bassman that I'd describe as "a very powerful amp that cuts through everything".

Happy hunting.

 

[sunburst79]

The Cab I'm refering to is apparently the VT Bassman 15.

Strictly my opinion of course but the Bassman 100 sounds much better through a pair of these than its official Fender 4 12 Bassman cab. The original speakers in both had square magnets which I believe made them either Eminence or CTS.

We snagged a VT with a blown speaker cheap. Found a new pair of cast frame 300 watt Fane Bass speakers cheap. It sounded good enough I drove 500 miles round trip to grab another VT cab.

I've not tried a Bassman 100 through a vertical 2 15 Dual Showman or Bandmaster cab. That might be as good as the VT.

They can sound nice as the other poster mentioned. They have a nice warm vintage sound for reasonable volume gigs. A Bassman 100 is not twice as loud as a 50 watt Bassman.

I still think that if you want to play in a loudish rock setting there are better choices for less money. There are way better guitar amp choices for that kind of money.

How it sounds and how musically useful it is the main thing. But if you could find a nice clean one at a reasonable price it's not likely to drop in value. Used gear is not a great way to invest money. But you could enjoy it and play it and not get hurt. So that's a bonus.

 

[waveman]

I had a 1971 Super Bassman 100. I regret selling that thing to this day. It sounded glorious and plenty loud with modern efficient drivers and cabs. It sound glorious on guitar through a 2x12 guitar cab. It was also very old, heavy, power hungry, needed pots worked on, and not very practical for gigging for me, but I still wished I had it to play through and record with occasionally.