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2 Weeks working for Mesa/Boogie - Some thoughts

I too briefly worked at the Mesa Boogie factory. Even though I had (and continue to have) an ongoing good relationship with the team at Mesa, working at the factory didn't work out with me either. I saw similar things that you did, but perhaps I had a different perspective on them.

First and foremost: it's a FACTORY. It's not a skilled job. If you were hired to work on the assembly line, then you had all of one job to do: move units. Despite what marketing materials tell you, your Martin, Fender, Marshall, or Mesa/Boogie aren't painstakingly crafted by skilled artisans: they are built by people who are willing to do repetitive, boring work, day in day out. While being on the assembly line can give you some insight into the manufacturing process, it doesn't qualify you to make suggestions or introduce new designs. The company was slowly built from the ground up over the last 40 years by one man, Randall Smith, and he still does the bulk of the designing. You lasted less than two weeks, so don't be insulted if your suggestions weren't taken seriously.

Yes, there's a lot of Laotian and Hispanic people working there. So what? People tend to find jobs through friends, and if you're an immigrant, chances are your friends are of similar racial or cultural background. These are good paying jobs for people with minimal education and limited English, so of course they end up recommending their friends for positions that open up. I don't speak a lick of anything other than 'Merican, and I got along with them just fine (after work basketball games were a highlight). The thing is, many of these fine people had been working for M/B for over 10 years - what does that tell you? Clearly they're very productive and get things done without complaint. Also: $13 an hour, with lots of benefits, is really good for factory work. California minimum wage is $9. There's a good reason why M/B employees stick around for decades: they're paid well and treated well. And yes, many of them really care about what they do.

I think a lot of these companies develop sort of mythical status in the eyes of us musicians, and my experience at Mesa was also disappointing in that regard. I was initially interviewed for a senior position, which ended up going to somebody with far more experience, but Mesa wanted to hire me anyway just to get my foot in the door. I started on the factory floor as well, and learned some of the hard lessons that you did: it's not magic. It's boring. There's little skill involved. That's just the reality of any sort of manufacturing, be it clothes or cars or tube amps. The fact that Mesa can do it, in America, paying well over minimum wage, building a quality amp, and somehow still manage to turn a small profit is pretty remarkable. Mesa Boogie isn't perfect, and yes - they could certainly be better about communicating the reality of the job and improve training. Perhaps they've gotten so used to what the work is like, and with such little employee turnover, they've forgotten what it's like to be the new guy.

My situation is somewhat different is that I quit to take another job. Mesa was wanting to move me though the factory, train me in all aspects of the gig, and then move me into Artist Relations - but their timeline for that was much slower than what I had initially thought. I couldn't stick around and wait for that opportunity to come around, so I left on good terms. I'm still good friends with many of the guys in the higher up positions, and my respect for the company hasn't changed much. What I did learn is that factory jobs aren't much fun, regardless wether is M/B or anything else, and I'm just not suited for repetitive work. Yeah, I understand you didn't dig how things went, but you must understand that there have been people working in the factory for over 20 years, so perhaps it's not Mesa/Boogie's fault nor your fault, but just a matter of things not working out for your particular working relationship. Don't take it too hard and move on.
 
you would have fired me for having ideas?

Sounds a little harsh, don't you think?

Direct answers to your questions: No. Yes.

Roundabout answers: You can have all the ideas you want, and you are free to tell them to who you want. However, you must use good judgement. When you are hired to work on a fast paced production line, management doesn't want to hear your vision for the future of their company. You weren't hired for that. You were hired to nail boxes together, so do that. Judged on what you shared with us, this did not appear to me to be your focus. They gave you some time to settle in and work, but it looks like you kept on with the attempts to enlighten management. Comments about 'getting amps out the door' should have been your clue to be quiet and help get those amps out the door.

I've managed people in high stress, high production environments before. The guys/gals who show up to work, but end up trying to tell me all their great ideas to change things or make the place better, they just have to go. There isn't room for that in the position they were hired for. This is the reason I would let people like you go, for not doing specifically the job I hired them for. Funny enough, a few of them over the years reacted to me the same way you have. 'I'm getting fired for having an opinion/idea, huh'? Well, if you want to see it that way, I doubt I can do much more to show you the management side of the situation.

What's the bummer here is there are success stories all over the world of someone like you who gets hired at the bottom of the food chain, and work their way up to the top of the company through hard work and tenacity. You had that chance in front of you.

-Mike
 
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I am speaking more about the general sentiment that factory workers' should just shut up and do their job. Any expression of creativity or innovation will do nothing but irritate those you serve. If that is truly what the prevailing culture is in manufacturing, it is no wonder all the jobs are going overseas. That is where the least skilled labor can be found. So why does Germany do so well with in-country manufacturing? Because they have training programs that produce some of the most skilled factory workers in the world building some of the most sophisticated products. Products that are in high demand world-wide. (One example is an earth boring machine for making tunnels.) They believe in investing in their labor force. They train them well, pay them well and still make a respectable profit.
 
I have a couple of thoughts floating in my head here. First, I agree that as a general rule of thumb, when you came in as an assembly line worker, the first thing you should do probably isn't to start introducing your new ideas to revolutionize the company. And with respect to your immediate coworkers, there is an established hegemony with them, along with social bonds and social norms. That's just the reality of the situation, good or bad. On the other hand, I don't buy into this idea that management is always right, either, and all of the small peon workers have no idea on how to improve processes. People with doctorates in I/O psychology and organizational behavior are often paid lots of money to enact change due to systematic issues with management that are ultimately pathological to the organization and the people who occupy it. Group think, hostile work environments, and just bad leadership: All of that stuff is real. I'm often astounded by how many people with PHR credentials can't properly conduct a job analysis or develop a performance appraisal metric that has criterion, content, and construct validity.

Taking what you say at face value, it sounds like there are some organizational culture issues at Mesa and the fact that a company of their stature does not have clearly defined and executed training protocols is problematic to say the least. That's a shame. I'm a big Mesa guy, and I have a lot of respect for Randall Smith. But I agree that we lionize these music equipment companies. Many of us got a rude awakening with the Peavey episode of Undercover Boss. At the end of the day, they're all for-profit enterprises.

I agree with Lobster. It just doesn't sound like it was a gig that had a lot of potential for any sort of upward advancement. Ultimately, it wasn't a good fit for either party and was probably best that the relationship was severed after two weeks. It may seem really sucky right now, but in a few years, I have an inkling that you'll agree.
 
Factory workers should do their job. Nobody said shut up. M/B said get amps out the door. OP chose instead to make suggestions on how M/B could better run their company, and they decided that's not what they were looking for in a line worker.

I fail to see how that outcome is an indictment of M/B. Is a company not entitled to determine their own course, and subsequently their own fate?

If their refusal to listen to OP's ideas leads to their demise, isn't that their problem??
 
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Direct answers to your questions: No. Yes.

Roundabout answers: You can have all the ideas you want, and you are free to tell them to who you want. However, you must use good judgement. When you are hired to work on a fast paced production line, management doesn't want to hear your vision for the future of their company. You weren't hired for that. You were hired to nail boxes together, so do that. Judged on what you shared with us, this did not appear to me to be your focus. They gave you some time to settle in and work, but it looks like you kept on with the attempts to enlighten management. Comments about 'getting amps out the door' should have been your clue to be quiet and help get those amps out the door.

I've managed people in high stress, high production environments before. The guys/gals who show up to work, but end up trying to tell me all their great ideas to change things or make the place better, they just have to go. There isn't room for that in the position they were hired for. This is the reason I would let people like you go, for not doing specifically the job I hired them for. Funny enough, a few of them over the years reacted to me the same way you have. 'I'm getting fired for having an opinion/idea, huh'? Well, if you want to see it that way, I doubt I can do much more to show you the management side of the situation.

What's the bummer here is there are success stories all over the world of someone like you who gets hired at the bottom of the food chain, and work their way up to the top of the company through hard work and tenacity. You had that chance in front of you.

-Mike


I worked very hard, showed up on time, clocked out on time, and tried to make the best of the situation; I was receiving no training. I did not harass the superiors with an endless stream of ideas. I presented two ideas which were shot down, one of them before I could even say what it was. They had nothing to do with how the company was run. So I'm really struggling to see your side of things, with all due respect.
 
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I just don't get this. You are making assumptions about the OP's behavior, how he did things, that is not based on what was presented. There is the general assumption that Mesa Boogie fired him for failure to do his job and being a big mouth. None of this is based on the story as told by the OP. It is just assumed that the employee is to blame here. I have read here, and have received the same sentiment from numerous sources, that somehow companies are infallible and that employees are to blame for their own personal failures.
 
I just don't get this. You are making assumptions about the OP's behavior, how he did things, that is not based on what was presented. There is the general assumption that Mesa Boogie fired him for failure to do his job and being a big mouth. None of this is based on the story as told by the OP. It is just assumed that the employee is to blame here. I have read here, and have received the same sentiment from numerous sources, that somehow companies are infallible and that employees are to blame for their own personal failures.
I work at a variety of companies. I have to sell my services and products to management and then train the employees to use them. Often it's the lowest man on the totem pole. So I deal with all sides regularly and get an earful from all of them every visit. Often I hear about a situation from one side and then hear about it later from another. It's usually comical what one might leave out or not see. Sometimes management is doing something stupid. Sometimes the employees are. Sometimes they all are.

Yummy worked for 2 weeks at a company that's been in business for 45 years. They let him go. Then he posted his side on a public musical forum. I'm not going to assume that Mesa failed and it's an indictment on corporate America.
 
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I understood that to mean that he was joking with the guy. Perhaps showing some initiative. I would have taken that as a healthy display of hubirs.

And that's the way I understood it too. Maybe I should have put in a smilie. Another thing that comes to mind is whether or not the op was clear on the particular job he was applying for or if the HR person was clear about the job he needed filled and it's advancement possibilities (which an applicant should try to discern during interviews).
 
Pills, welcome to the gig economy.

You weren't totally outta line talking up your skills in the interview, imo.

Today's jobs, largely held by low wage immigrants are precious. You didn't blend in with either ethnic group, but if you think if it as class, in a sociological context, you're no $13/hr employee. The boss thought so too.

Yup things are a changing and not for the better. Many opinions here reflect the old school economy, boot straps and all. Hell, them loatians have it wired, by blood no less.

Btw, "Hispanics and Asians" are the majority in California. You would do well to learn some Spanish and Mandarin. You'll get better service in restaurants, I guarantee you!
 
So in short, I wasn't thinking "instead" of working...the two aren't mutually exclusive.

In your first fortnight, they might as well be because they will be SEEN to be. I know this sounds harsh, and I don't mean it as a personal attack on you. You seem decently smart and decently motivated, but be aware that although those two qualities are generally positive, it's often best to back WAY off them early in any new employment setting.

This is true in just about any job - if you're a MLB manager brought in during the doldrums of July to take over a team on a 9-game losing streak, make all the changes you want, but everybody else is usually well-served to keep eyes open and mouth shut almost no matter the circumstance. This means watching carefully and asking the right questions.

(I get that language was a huge issue here - and I believe that it was unfair to you that a manager did not introduce you to your trainer and say 'PaY, this is 'Jose,' he's our best trainer at the part of the process you'll be learning first. Although his English may not be better than your Spanish, I am confident that you will be able to learn his techniques quickly.' Or something like that. This would have told each of you what the expectations were and that there was some sort of acknowledgement of the situation.)

Asking the right questions does NOT mean asking things that start with 'Why...'. The first few weeks are not the time to re-engineer the product or the process. This is your opportunity to see what the company does and how they do it. Period.

I used to work for a small USA manufacturing company. I was the primary trainer on the line where the complicated products were built. Training was a one-on-one proposition, and getting someone up to speed to make the very simplest complicated products took a full week. This was an insane amount of time investment, so we did make decisions pretty quickly on people. Here's what I looked for, on the positive side and the negative side:

POSITIVE:
*** The general work-habit basics you demonstrated (be on time, etc)
*** A smile first thing in the morning
*** Actually watching me while I demonstrated something
*** Using the tools / jigs / diagrams, and using them in the ways instructed
*** Asking 'Like this?' or 'Am I using this tool correctly?'
*** Comments to the effect of 'I see what you mean now' or 'That makes sense.'
*** Eye contact with my coworkers when they come by to ask me something that has nothing to do with you
*** Taking your cue from me about how much conversation we have while we work

NEGATIVE:
*** Doing something in a way other than exactly how I've just demonstrated
*** Making an excuse other than 'I'm sorry, I misunderstood' for that
*** Asking 'Why....'
*** Saying 'It seems like if we did X instead of Y things would work out better.'
*** Talking about me (anything, to anyone) behind my back
*** Making any comments about the functionality or appearance of the product
*** Silently guessing that you're doing the right thing instead of coming to me to confirm

I'm not saying that you did any of these things on either list... I'm just saying these are among the things I looked for. I'm also not saying that new people should always be seen but not heard. There are absolutely times for fresh ideas... but not that early. I gently asked people to trust me; my usual line was 'Hold off on those questions for now, and if you still have them in a week I'll be happy to address them.' Nobody ever did. And the more you know about the process, not necessarily the product, the better your good ideas will eventually turn out to be.

Your employer, whoever she or he is, wants you to do what they hired you to do - and, at least at first, NO MORE. Being a fanboy isn't necessarily a good thing. I've done a lot of production work, and the particular items are less interesting to me than the process used to build them. I could build a car or a filing cabinet or a piano with equal enthusiasm, probably.

The comment awhile back about you just not being in the right place (maybe you should be on the marketing side instead of the assembly side) has some merit, but realize that this basic concept applies there as well. Observe, listen, learn, and ask the right sort of questions, and that will help a lot.

Hope that helps.
 
Is that what we accept at normal? That the most creative and innovative minds are the least desirable? Isn't there something wrong with that?
Culture and entertainment teach you that creative thinkers are the only valuable people. Nothing is further from the truth.
IRL, what industries need is people who show up on time, do their simple job the best they can and shut up. This is how you achieve a consistent, reliable production, by sheer repetition of simple tasks, done by people who avoid thinking too much.
It's not only true for chain workers. A soldier, a waiter, a cleaner, these are jobs best done by people who dedicate themselves to following orders, doing their simple tasks and nothing else.
 
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Hmm, waiter not as much as fast food clerk or line worker.

My daughters have all been servers at sit down restaurants where you are rewarded (or not) based on your performance, and a large part of your success is derived from your ability to evaluate your customer and serve them according to their personality. If you can tailor the service given to the customer your pay will increase. It does require a lot of thinking and more effort than "slot A in tab B" or "push button with burger pic for burger" skill/talent.

My daughters did quite well but I'm not taking any credit for it... :p

Still, you're correct that the employer just wants them to do their job well, efficiently, accurately, and make customers happy. Not stuff the Managment Suggestion Box.

And the best way to experience reward for creative thinking is to put it to work for yourself. The free market that gives individuals the opportunity to pursue their own path provides the environment for creative thinkers to produce new products, methods, services, and ultimately drone jobs that need to be performed by line workers. And creative thinking does not mean just the arts. It also (and more often) means thinking creatively on how to improve your lot in life without relying on someone else, corporate America, or government programs to make it happen for you.