And here's why I call complete and total B.S. on that statement:
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See? It's offensive because we say it's offensive!
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2 Weeks working for Mesa/Boogie - Some thoughts
- Thread starter Geezer Brown
- Start date
And here's why I call complete and total B.S. on that statement:
Invalid Link Removed
See? It's offensive because we say it's offensive!
If you read the content of the article, it's pretty obvious why they removed 'Asian' (not 'Oriental') from the name. You can disagree, I might even be inclined to but they did it because the fish is very BAD. You won't see them renaming the 'Asian Culture and Arts Festival' any time soon. Even though the fish originally came from Asia it's been here for more than 40 years so there isn't much point hitting people over the head with it any longer.
FWIW, I worked for a U.S. music manufacturer in the 70's for a short time, as well as in a music store.
Truth is, I think, that our love for music kind of idealizes our fantasy about working for a company that produces or sells our love.
The fact is it's just assembly line work, and sales, corporate financial gain and that's about it. You are just a gear in their machine just like GM or Nissan
The company I worked for had a lot of Italians working in the finishing departments, and the Americans mostly in production and assembly, though not along strict lines. I don't believe there was a racial divide other than the supervisors were second generation who were bilingual.
Think about it. Even high enders in the business buy sell and move all over the place. There is no "romance" in the manufacturing sector of music for most. Sorry for your bad experience and bubble bursting, but playing is where the real satisfaction is.
Truth is, I think, that our love for music kind of idealizes our fantasy about working for a company that produces or sells our love.
The fact is it's just assembly line work, and sales, corporate financial gain and that's about it. You are just a gear in their machine just like GM or Nissan
The company I worked for had a lot of Italians working in the finishing departments, and the Americans mostly in production and assembly, though not along strict lines. I don't believe there was a racial divide other than the supervisors were second generation who were bilingual.
Think about it. Even high enders in the business buy sell and move all over the place. There is no "romance" in the manufacturing sector of music for most. Sorry for your bad experience and bubble bursting, but playing is where the real satisfaction is.
slobake
resident ... something
As for race, however people want me to refer to them that is okay with me. If someone prefers the term Asian then that is what I use it makes no difference to me. Why would I insist on using a term that bothers people for no good reason but my own stubborness or pride?
On the other hand if I unintenitonally offend someone when I use a term they don't like they need to let me know and tell me what they prefer, no problem. If they are angry or resentful with me because of something unintentional I try and not let it get to me. I am not responsible for other people's issues and I don't want to make them my own.
Weren't we talking about employment here?
On the other hand if I unintenitonally offend someone when I use a term they don't like they need to let me know and tell me what they prefer, no problem. If they are angry or resentful with me because of something unintentional I try and not let it get to me. I am not responsible for other people's issues and I don't want to make them my own.
Weren't we talking about employment here?
I haven't yet read past this post, so maybe it's already been said, but...you proposed new ideas to a company's management, while you were an employee of the company? Your ideas are probably now their intellectual property; but good luck with your patents!
Honestly don't understand how certain words offend people, I really cannot grasp it. The meanings of words change over time and then they become offensive. Orient is latin for "The East" and thus 'Oriental' meant "From the East". You could be born in Saudi Arabia and that would qualify you as being Asian.
SMH...
My apologies for my outdated terms. I was trying to be as correct as possible. I have no resentments towards any race whatsoever. I do agree, most of these terms are useless crap, but I agree with Slobake. I'd rather call someone something they would prefer rather than just call them whatever I want and offend them. Also I should note I remember a time when the term "Asian" was considered offensive. But please, if we must discuss racial issues then please keep it civil.
Looking back on things, I concluded that even if I wasn't let go, Mesa/Boogie isn't a place I would like to work. They did not seem to value their employees' ideas and there was literally zero opportunity for advancement for anyone on my side of the factory. It would have been 15 years of insert tab A into slot B. I think overall that my expectations for working for this company were wrapped up in an outdated ideal, in which a passionate young man CAN start from the bottom, love the work he does, love the products he builds, learn everything he can from his colleagues, and develop his own ideas from years of experience which are then used by the company. You know, the story about a mailroom clerk who becomes a CEO. I wasn't looking to be CEO obviously, but i figured if any place still existed where one can do this, it would have been M/B
I think this is an ideal lost by my generation. I think it's sad that such an ideal is lost. It's so expensive living where I do and it discourages me even more knowing that to in order to make a decent living for myself, I need either a $200,000 education or I need 5-10 years plus of real world experience. I don't want to have a pity party for myself but this job opened up some of the realities of the economy and modern workplace.
So yes, perhaps I did rub everyone the wrong way with my enthusiasm...but it seems strange to me that enthusiasm is something that is apparently now deplored in the workplace. I think M/B has some troubled times ahead, because there will come a time when they'll run out of ideas. We've already established that the quality of their products has gone down for the sake of profit, so we know that it can/will happen again. M/B lacks the spirit that made many amplifier companies great.
One thing I forgot to mention was on my second to last M/B, I finally found out if the family of Asians thing was true when I saw one of the higher ups holding hands with an Asian woman walking through the factory.
But thanks for your input TB, I think I have a better idea of what's gone down. Luckily, I didn't propose any ACTUAL ideas to my superiors...they didn't want to hear them to begin with. I've got $800 in my pocket and 2 tours coming up. Who knows what the future holds?
Looking back on things, I concluded that even if I wasn't let go, Mesa/Boogie isn't a place I would like to work. They did not seem to value their employees' ideas and there was literally zero opportunity for advancement for anyone on my side of the factory. It would have been 15 years of insert tab A into slot B. I think overall that my expectations for working for this company were wrapped up in an outdated ideal, in which a passionate young man CAN start from the bottom, love the work he does, love the products he builds, learn everything he can from his colleagues, and develop his own ideas from years of experience which are then used by the company. You know, the story about a mailroom clerk who becomes a CEO. I wasn't looking to be CEO obviously, but i figured if any place still existed where one can do this, it would have been M/B
I think this is an ideal lost by my generation. I think it's sad that such an ideal is lost. It's so expensive living where I do and it discourages me even more knowing that to in order to make a decent living for myself, I need either a $200,000 education or I need 5-10 years plus of real world experience. I don't want to have a pity party for myself but this job opened up some of the realities of the economy and modern workplace.
So yes, perhaps I did rub everyone the wrong way with my enthusiasm...but it seems strange to me that enthusiasm is something that is apparently now deplored in the workplace. I think M/B has some troubled times ahead, because there will come a time when they'll run out of ideas. We've already established that the quality of their products has gone down for the sake of profit, so we know that it can/will happen again. M/B lacks the spirit that made many amplifier companies great.
One thing I forgot to mention was on my second to last M/B, I finally found out if the family of Asians thing was true when I saw one of the higher ups holding hands with an Asian woman walking through the factory.
But thanks for your input TB, I think I have a better idea of what's gone down. Luckily, I didn't propose any ACTUAL ideas to my superiors...they didn't want to hear them to begin with. I've got $800 in my pocket and 2 tours coming up. Who knows what the future holds?
Asian carp fact- the name was changed to something more palateable so they could sell it as a food item
The word Oriental became less preferred because it was a term coined by Western nations that conducted imperialist governance of countries in far east Asia.
In response to one question, no, I was not referring to them as "orientals", I called them their name or "sir". They were really funny. They liked to horse around a lot.
Then the terms "Negro" and "Colored People" should be offensive too I would imagine, but they are used daily...
Here and here...
I just want to know who decides that a word is offensive. Shouldn't the individual decide? What offends you and what offends me may be 2 different things? Anyway, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread. (Sorry if that term offends any Jacks here)
Here and here...
I just want to know who decides that a word is offensive. Shouldn't the individual decide? What offends you and what offends me may be 2 different things? Anyway, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread. (Sorry if that term offends any Jacks here)
Grasshopper, do not walk into a shop and tell them what to do.
Make yourself useful,handy.
The language barrier is an opportunity for you.
It takes time to blend in.
Don't blow it.
Remember, quality is utmost.
Make yourself useful,handy.
The language barrier is an opportunity for you.
It takes time to blend in.
Don't blow it.
Remember, quality is utmost.
Well if we all get to label ourselves I'm going with Europian-American except on the 3rd Tuesday of every month when you had better call me honky or I will be offended.
slobake
resident ... something
Having assembly and factory experience (not in amps) that's how it is. You are a line worker and talking on the job and not learning the ropes gets you chopped. There's a line of people waiting for an opening and I have before have been trained with a language barrier and my Spanish is horrible. But I just read body language and learned and would try and find the key words and ask them and point so I know the tool.
I also told the guys my Spanish sucks and I am going to try and learn and the workers actually perked up and respected me more. A lot of the workers could empathize learning a new language. You have to earn respect and as far as race a lot of white people are on top and not to mention from the story's I heard look down on the assembly workers. But I don't really think it's race it's more for people who don't speak English it scares them to see English speakers working one of the few jobs they can get.
Those guys I worked with ended up really taking me under their wing and made me one of the guys despite being a white american. At lunch everyone ate together and chipped in like family. They were some of the nicest people I worked with to date, they were the give the shirt off their back type. But I did have to prove to them I am there to work and that I respect their culture and am even interested in it. And let me tell you I had some of the best Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, and Spanish food ever. Made by wives and mothers and they wanted me to try it all and I sure did.
As far as going to a factory to talk about the product don't expect much and don't look down on those who build the product for not being an aficionado. Keep in mind they don't want to get fired getting caught talking on the line and need a job doing anything. This job isn't their dream job they are there to get paid and feed their family's.
But you live and you learn.
I also told the guys my Spanish sucks and I am going to try and learn and the workers actually perked up and respected me more. A lot of the workers could empathize learning a new language. You have to earn respect and as far as race a lot of white people are on top and not to mention from the story's I heard look down on the assembly workers. But I don't really think it's race it's more for people who don't speak English it scares them to see English speakers working one of the few jobs they can get.
Those guys I worked with ended up really taking me under their wing and made me one of the guys despite being a white american. At lunch everyone ate together and chipped in like family. They were some of the nicest people I worked with to date, they were the give the shirt off their back type. But I did have to prove to them I am there to work and that I respect their culture and am even interested in it. And let me tell you I had some of the best Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, and Spanish food ever. Made by wives and mothers and they wanted me to try it all and I sure did.
As far as going to a factory to talk about the product don't expect much and don't look down on those who build the product for not being an aficionado. Keep in mind they don't want to get fired getting caught talking on the line and need a job doing anything. This job isn't their dream job they are there to get paid and feed their family's.
But you live and you learn.
As a fish lover, I resent this remark.
Carps aren't bad. They try to live and prosper just like any other animal.
It's not their fault that their ancesters were deported to a foreign country by dominant white males.
Hey OP, I hope it works out for you. I had the pleasure of going through what you did (not with Mesa but another company) 20+ years ago. While it might seem cruddy now, chalk it up to a learning experience that everyone goes through at one point or another. At least you tried!!
