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2 x 10 advice.

OK... now this thread is completely silly. So, I'll take it a step further....

A guy comes into a bar and asks for recommendations for 2x10" bass cabinets. Someone replies that there is one out there which is a really excellent performer, superior to most anything on the market, but it turns out that the low frequency drivers are actually not a full 10" in diameter, coming in at only 9.8". "Oh, I see. Well that cabinet is definitely out of consideration, because I specifically asked about 2x10" cabinets, not 2x9.8" cabinets" says the man. "A 2x9.8" cabinet would never work!". Suggesting that adding a 5" midrange driver to a 2x10" cabinet ought to take it out of consideration is a similar exercise in semantics.....
 
Price range? Must have missed it. What was/is that range?

My initial price range was about £650 (which i didn't mention, sorry).

If I sell the nx212 and my wizzy 10 I could probably afford the Fearless or the EA NL210 which look amazing on paper but only a test will tell as everything is subjective, I'm sure they both kick ass.

FWIW I wouldn't dismiss something just because it isn't technically a 2x10.
I started this thread to hear peoples opinions and experiences on that style of cab..

Some of the info I have been given has been really useful, especially from the people who have offered me advice and suggested cabs I should try.

My OP is essentially asking advice on a good 2x10 and if I would be able to get a good level out of it, Enough to use it as a stand alone cab running a 900w head with a 2x10@ 8ohms so my head would be running at 500w.

The idea of getting the smaller 2x10 was for smaller club/pub gigs when we're all cramped up on stage, plus touring with a smaller/lighter cab has it's obvious benefits.
 
I am looking for the same thing. An 8ohm 2x10 that i can use as a standalone, as well as add another 2x10 to later. I play through the Genz Shuttle 9. I was considering the Avatar B210 (neo), but now looking into the TC Electronic RS210. Those two cabs are priced similarly, and the weight is comparable as well. I wonder if anyone has compared them side by side. The Acme looks amazing but out of my price range, which is 400ish US$.
 
I strongly disagree with the opinion of the dealer you referenced. There was a customer at BSD yesterday auditioning a CN210 with an Epifani UL501 head and a 5-string bass. No shortage of volume or booty at all. The B string was full and clear down low. You owe it to yourself to try one. I used mine at my last gig with a Glockenklang Blue Soul and Sadowsky RV5. I ran gain and volume at about 10 and noon, respectively. I'll be using it at an outdoor gig next week (medium venue, not large). For bigger gigs I use the CN212, and have never been lacking for punch and bottom.

For the record, I'm not an employee of BSD, but I do contract work on electronics for them. I do not benefit from any sales of instruments or amps.

Well, I went and auditioned the CN 210. I agree with your review. It's a fat and fast speaking cab with plenty of booty, and really responsive to subtle eq changes. Brilliant design. The dealer has a switching system so i was able to quickly AB with the CN212. The CN212 is louder (4 vs 8 ohm vs of course). and maybe a little deeper, but also much heavier to move. I tried the CN 210 in combo with the CN112, and then NV 115. From my limited experience there, I wouldn't advise using the CN210 with anything else but another CN210. That's just me though. It's a beautiful cabinet, and really easy to move. Prolly not the best choice for the OP, imo.
 
Well, I went and auditioned the CN 210. I agree with your review. It's a fat and fast speaking cab with plenty of booty, and really responsive to subtle eq changes. Brilliant design. The dealer has a switching system so i was able to quickly AB with the CN212. The CN212 is louder (4 vs 8 ohm vs of course). and maybe a little deeper, but also much heavier to move. I tried the CN 210 in combo with the CN112, and then NV 115. From my limited experience there, I wouldn't advise using the CN210 with anything else but another CN210. That's just me though. It's a beautiful cabinet, and really easy to move. Prolly not the best choice for the OP, imo.
Hmmm ... I may have been there when you were.
 
Well, I went and auditioned the CN 210. I agree with your review. It's a fat and fast speaking cab with plenty of booty, and really responsive to subtle eq changes. Brilliant design. The dealer has a switching system so i was able to quickly AB with the CN212. The CN212 is louder (4 vs 8 ohm vs of course). and maybe a little deeper, but also much heavier to move. I tried the CN 210 in combo with the CN112, and then NV 115. From my limited experience there, I wouldn't advise using the CN210 with anything else but another CN210. That's just me though. It's a beautiful cabinet, and really easy to move. Prolly not the best choice for the OP, imo.
I'm not necessarily after something that has to be as loud as my 212 (which I sometimes find a bit to much tbh) just needs to hold its own. Cn210 is a definite contender on my try out list..
 
OK... now this thread is completely silly. So, I'll take it a step further....

A guy comes into a bar and asks for recommendations for 2x10" bass cabinets. Someone replies that there is one out there which is a really excellent performer, superior to most anything on the market, but it turns out that the low frequency drivers are actually not a full 10" in diameter, coming in at only 9.8". "Oh, I see. Well that cabinet is definitely out of consideration, because I specifically asked about 2x10" cabinets, not 2x9.8" cabinets" says the man. "A 2x9.8" cabinet would never work!". Suggesting that adding a 5" midrange driver to a 2x10" cabinet ought to take it out of consideration is a similar exercise in semantics.....
Haaaaaaaaa!!! Hilarious!!
 
I know everything's subjective but how would you say these 2 cabs compare?

Both produce clean, pure sound. The F210 sounds more robust and definitely has much greater volume potential due to the high excursion drivers and mid range driver. In the neighborhood of a good 410. So if a 410's volume is necessary at your gigs, a F210 is the ideal one-cab solution. No way can the EA match that performance. I can't recall the EA's weight. My F210 weighs 46 pounds. My last 410 weighted 100 pounds.
 
Both produce clean, pure sound. The F210 sounds more robust and definitely has much greater volume potential due to the high excursion drivers and mid range driver. In the neighborhood of a good 410. So if a 410's volume is necessary at your gigs, a F210 is the ideal one-cab solution. No way can the EA match that performance. I can't recall the EA's weight. My F210 weighs 46 pounds. My last 410 weighted 100 pounds.
Thanks.. I've also since started looking at the fl112 as it looks great for those cramped situations.. the Ea nl 210 and fl210 seem about the same price and i'm swaying towards the fl210 atm although there is like a 2 month wait!! I might see if I can check out the fl112 and see if it can get to the volume level for a bigish band with loud drummer and such.. thanks for getting back to me.
 
Thanks.. I've also since started looking at the fl112 as it looks great for those cramped situations.. the Ea nl 210 and fl210 seem about the same price and i'm swaying towards the fl210 atm although there is like a 2 month wait!! I might see if I can check out the fl112 and see if it can get to the volume level for a bigish band with loud drummer and such.. thanks for getting back to me.

Keep in mind, there is a super nice coupling effect with two drivers that you don't get with a single driver. It smooths out the sound and makes it more robust. I love my F110, but the F210 sounds even better at the gig - especially when I'm playing electric as opposed to acoustic bass. I'm sure the F112 is great in terms of adding more volume, but if you can hear the one driver vs. two in person you'll know what I mean. All keeping this in terms of your original mission of getting an all-in-one cab solution.
 
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Keep in mind, there is a super nice coupling effect with two drivers that you don't get with a single driver. It smooths out the sound and makes it more robust. I love my F110, but the F210 sounds even better at the gig - especially when I'm playing electric as opposed to acoustic bass. I'm sure the F112 is great in terms of adding more volume, but if you can hear the one driver vs. two in person you'll know what I mean. All keeping this in terms of your original mission of getting an all-in-one cab solution.
I'm keeping my nx212 for bigger gigs (for now).
I've tried quite a few 2x10's now but none seem much smaller or much more advantageous than the 212 for small stages.
I am seriously considering the fl112 as this looks prefect for 80% of my club gigs where I'm right up against my amp.
I love the sound in reviews I've heard also.
I was never really after a 1 cab solution more just one cab for big gigs and one for cramped small gigs that would double up well aswell.
If I like the F112 enough I cld always get another and sell the nx212.
From what I've heard a fl112 wld compete with a high end 2x10.
Do you think using a genz Benz 9.2 will work well with the fl112?
 
I'm keeping my nx212 for bigger gigs (for now).
I've tried quite a few 2x10's now but none seem much smaller or much more advantageous than the 212 for small stages.
I am seriously considering the fl112 as this looks prefect for 80% of my club gigs where I'm right up against my amp.
I love the sound in reviews I've heard also.
I was never really after a 1 cab solution more just one cab for big gigs and one for cramped small gigs that would double up well aswell.
If I like the F112 enough I cld always get another and sell the nx212.
From what I've heard a fl112 wld compete with a high end 2x10.
Do you think using a genz Benz 9.2 will work well with the fl112?

I've never used a 9.2. You might drop into the Genz or Greenboy threads to ask this question as it's starting to veer off your OP. :D
 
I'm keeping my nx212 for bigger gigs (for now).
I've tried quite a few 2x10's now but none seem much smaller or much more advantageous than the 212 for small stages.
I am seriously considering the fl112 as this looks prefect for 80% of my club gigs where I'm right up against my amp.
I love the sound in reviews I've heard also.
I was never really after a 1 cab solution more just one cab for big gigs and one for cramped small gigs that would double up well aswell.
If I like the F112 enough I cld always get another and sell the nx212.
From what I've heard a fl112 wld compete with a high end 2x10.
Do you think using a genz Benz 9.2 will work well with the fl112?
"Compete." I'm taking that to mean potential volume/loudness. That's what I'd mean if I used "compete" anyway. If you mean something else, then what follows will have less meaning than it would otherwise.

The main determinant for potential loudness of a cab is Volume Displacement (Vd), usually just shortened to/referred to as "Displacement.". Vd is the product of speaker cone surface area (Sd) & voice coil overhang/maximum linear excursion (Xmax), which is the back & forth piston-like distance the driver moves. This product is commonly expressed as "cc." The greater the Vd cc figure, the more potential volume/loudness.

The F112 (& almost all other "super" 2 or 3-way 12s; 12/6s for example, or 12/6/1s, or 1212/6s or 1212/6/1s) employ the Eminence KappaLite 3012LF (low frequency) driver. There are other LFs from Eminence & other bass speaker manufacturers, but the 3012LF is probably the best combination of performance/price, explaining its w-i-d-e-s-p-r-e-a-d use. As an aside, all these cabs use a dedicated midrange (the "6" portion of the cab description), and sometimes a high-frequency driver/tweeter (the "1" part of the cab description), specifically because the LF concentrates on the low frequencies & needs a lot of help w/mids & highs for the cab to sound its best.

Eminence KappaLite 3012LF speakers - Eminence KappaLite 3012LF 12" neodymium speaker. Eminence KappaLite 3012LF lightweight neodymium speakers.

Now ... a single F112 vs high-end 210s? Yes it'll compete. And then some. Actually a whole heapin' bunch of "and then some." A single 3012LF has Vd of 495cc. The very, x-tree nice Eminence DeltaLite II 2510 (with a very good 4.9mm Xmax) sports a Vd of 162cc. The 3012LF has triple the 2510's Vd. And there are very few 210s that use 2510s or equivalent-quality speakers. Cabs w/2510s or similar and/or better (the "high-end" boxes you're talking about) are just too expensive to sell to the vast majority of buyers. Simple as that. Yes, they're made & yes, they're available, but the % is relatively small. So even when compared to the "high-end" 210s, the F112 comes out on top.

Eminence Delta Lite II 2510 neodymium speakers - Eminence Delta Lite II 2510 10" speaker. Eminence Delta Lite II 2510 lightweight 10" speakers.

The only 210 on the planet. of which I'm aware, that can out-gun an F112 is ... hold on ... another Greenie. The Greenboy F210. It has two Eminence KappaLite 3010LFs. The Vd for a 3010LF is 305cc. Two produce 610cc, 115cc more than the F112. About 23.5% greater Vd. You also get the +3dB SPL from driver coupling. And the footprint is friendlier when you're stage-space-challenged. So, yeah, this 210 (but likely no other) is superior to the F112. But it comes at a price (had to be a catch, right?). A new F112 is $1100. A new F210, $1455. That's a 32% up-charge. Fairly linear cost/Vd ratio, though. Used prices, well, that's a whole different ball game. How well do you negotiate?

Eminence KappaLite 3010lf speakers - Eminence KappaLite 3010lf 10" neodymium speaker. Eminence KappaLite 3010lf lightweight neodymium speakers.

Not only does the F112 come out the "victor valiant" (great, great fight song, huh? along w/USC's "Fight On", the 2 best in the nation, although Notre Dame's "Victory March" is very close coming in @ #3), when pitted against 210s, it'll easily out-duel 212s, too. The only exception would be if the 212 used two 3012LFs or two 3012HOs (or the equivalent). But then those boxes would cost substantially more. Do the Vd calculations. You'll see.

Eminence KappaLite 3012HO speakers - Eminence KappaLite 3012HO 12" neodymium mid-bass speaker. Eminence KappaLite 3012HO lightweight neodymium speakers.

The real champions, though, are the 15/6s or 15/6/1s. They're in the market in much greater numbers than the 12/6s or 12/6/1s (although there are respectable units here, too) or 1010/6s or 1010/6/1s (a miniscule amount). They're also available, used, for some pretty attractive prices. They easily battle commercial 410s, coming out on top of all of'em. The Vd of a single KappaLite 3015LF is 845cc. If you have the space for one of these (~30" tall (or less) x ~20" wide (or less) x ~17" deep (or less) & ~50 lbs), you should absolutely go this way. Tremendous bang-for-the-buck.

Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF Speakers - Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF
lightweight neodymium woofer. The Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF is a 15 inch 8 ohm
lightweight speaker with extended Xmax. The Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF 15inch
speakers are rated at 450 watts RMS. Em


Now, after having sung the aforementioned praises, there are 2 more boxes that you should strongly consider. One is the Bill Fitzmaurice Jack 12 (really the Jack 12 Lite) & the other is the M(ichael)A(rnopol)S(oundworks)112.

The Jack 12 Lite uses the 3012HO, the full-range option rather than the low-frequency choice. The box (17" tall x 22" wide x 18" deep & just 32 lbs.) is a horn-loaded design that achieves s-e-r-i-o-u-s dB SPL (as much as ~110 dB at it's max).

Jack

The MAS112 (using either the 18Sound 12NLW9300 or Faital 12HP1060) is a larger/heavier box @ 32" tall x 15.5" wide x 14.5" deep & 52 lbs. But if you have space (& honestly, the 15.5 x 14.5 footprint is pretty reasonable) it's a terrific option. Each box is a monster 900cc Vd via its M(manipulated)V(cortex)W(aveguide) horn design. It/they (either driver) has/have just a touch greater Vd than the mighty (& it is mighty) 3015LF.

12MB700 Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300 12" Mid-Bass Speakers - Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300 12" Speaker - Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300 12" midbass 800 watt AES speaker. Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300 speakers are available here. 18 Sound speaker components.

Faital Pro 12HP1060 12" Speakers - Faital Pro 12HP1060 subwoofer 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12HP1060 2,000 watt 12" woofer for all high power bass applications. Faital Pro 12HP1060.

20140809_114450-jpg.jpg


Personally, I'd go with the MAS112. Pick your poison for which speaker. Different, but each is great.

And lastly, the Shuttle 9.2? Yeah. It'd work well with any/all of these. Al least I think so. Can't see a reason it wouldn't.
 
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"Compete." I'm taking that to mean potential volume/loudness. That's what I'd mean if I used "compete" anyway. If you mean something else, then what follows will have less meaning than it would otherwise.

The main determinant for potential loudness of a cab is Volume Displacement (Vd), usually just shortened to/referred to as "Displacement.". Vd is the product of speaker cone surface area (Sd) & voice coil overhang/maximum linear excursion (Xmax), which is the back & forth piston-like distance the driver moves. This product is commonly expressed as "cc." The greater the Vd cc figure, the more potential volume/loudness.

The F112 (& almost all other "super" 2 or 3-way 12s; 12/6s for example, or 12/6/1s, or 1212/6s or 1212/6/1s) employ the Eminence KappaLite 3012LF (low frequency) driver. There are other LFs from Eminence & other bass speaker manufacturers, but the 3012LF is probably the best combination of performance/price, explaining its w-i-d-e-s-p-r-e-a-d use. As an aside, all these cabs use a dedicated midrange (the "6" portion of the cab description), and sometimes a high-frequency driver/tweeter (the "1" part of the cab description), specifically because the LF concentrates on the low frequencies & needs a lot of help w/mids & highs for the cab to sound its best.

Eminence KappaLite 3012LF speakers - Eminence KappaLite 3012LF 12" neodymium speaker. Eminence KappaLite 3012LF lightweight neodymium speakers.

Now ... a single F112 vs high-end 210s? Yes it'll compete. And then some. Actually a whole heapin' bunch of "and then some." A single 3012LF has Vd of 495cc. The very, x-tree nice Eminence DeltaLite II 2510 (with a very good 4.9mm Xmax) sports a Vd of 162cc. The 3012LF has triple the 2510s Vd. And there are very few 210s that use 2510s or equivalent-quality speakers. Cabs w/2510s or similar and/or better (the "high-end" boxes you're talking about) are just too expensive to sell to the vast majority of buyers. Simple as that. Yes, they're made & yes, they're available, but the % is relatively small. So even when compared to the "high-end" 210s, the F112 comes out on top.

Eminence Delta Lite II 2510 neodymium speakers - Eminence Delta Lite II 2510 10" speaker. Eminence Delta Lite II 2510 lightweight 10" speakers.

The only 210 on the planet. of which I'm aware, that can out-gun an F112 is ... hold on ... another Greenie. The Greenboy F210. It has two Eminence KappaLite 3010LFs. The Vd for a 3010LF is 305cc. Two produce 610cc, 115cc more than the F112. About 23.5% greater Vd. You also get the +3dB SPL from driver coupling. And the footprint is friendlier when you're stage-space-challenged. So, yeah, this 210 (but likely no other) is superior to the F112. But it comes at a price (had to be a catch, right?). A new F112 is $1100. A new F210, $1455. That's a 32% up-charge. Fairly linear cost/Vd ratio, though. Used prices, well, that's a whole different ball game. How well do you negotiate?

Eminence KappaLite 3010lf speakers - Eminence KappaLite 3010lf 10" neodymium speaker. Eminence KappaLite 3010lf lightweight neodymium speakers.

Not only does the F112 come out the "victor valiant" (great, great fight song, huh? along w/USC's "Fight On", the 2 best in the nation, although Notre Dame's "Victory March" is very close coming in @ #3), when pitted against 210s, it'll easily out-duel 212s, too. The only exception would be if the 212 used two 3012LFs or two 3012HOs (or the equivalent). But then those boxes would cost substantially more. Do the Vd calculations. You'll see.

Eminence KappaLite 3012HO speakers - Eminence KappaLite 3012HO 12" neodymium mid-bass speaker. Eminence KappaLite 3012HO lightweight neodymium speakers.

The real champions, though, are the 15/6s or 15/6/1s. They're in the market in much greater numbers than the 12/6s or 12/6/1s (although there are respectable units here, too) or 1010/6s or 1010/6/1s (a miniscule amount). They're also available, used, for some pretty attractive prices. They easily battle commercial 410s, coming out on top of all of'em. The Vd of a single KappaLite 3015LF is 845cc. If you have the space for one of these (~30" tall (or less) x ~20" wide (or less) x ~17" deep (or less) & ~50 lbs), you should absolutely go this way. Tremendous bang-for-the-buck.

Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF Speakers - Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF
lightweight neodymium woofer. The Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF is a 15 inch 8 ohm
lightweight speaker with extended Xmax. The Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF 15inch
speakers are rated at 450 watts RMS. Em


Now, after having sung the aforementioned praises, there are 2 more boxes that you should strongly consider. One is the Bill Fitzmaurice Jack 12 (really the Jack 12 Lite) & the other is the M(ichael)A(rnopol)S(oundworks)112.

The Jack 12 Lite uses the 3012HO, the full-range option rather than the low-frequency choice. The box (17" tall x 22" wide x 18" deep & just 32 lbs.) is a horn-loaded design that achieves s-e-r-i-o-u-s dB SPL (as much as ~110 dB at it's max).

Jack

The MAS112 (using either the 18Sound 12NLW9300 or Faital 12HP1060) is a larger/heavier box @ 32" tall x 15.5" wide x 14.5" deep & 52 lbs. But if you have space (& honestly, the 15.5 x 14.5 footprint is pretty reasonable) it's a terrific option. Each box is a monster 900cc Vd via its M(manipulated)V(cortex)W(aveguide) horn design. It/they (either driver) has/have just a touch greater Vd than the mighty (& it is mighty) 3015LF.

12MB700 Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300 12" Mid-Bass Speakers - Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300 12" Speaker - Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300 12" midbass 800 watt AES speaker. Eighteen Sound 12NLW9300 speakers are available here. 18 Sound speaker components.

Faital Pro 12HP1060 12" Speakers - Faital Pro 12HP1060 subwoofer 12" speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 12HP1060 2,000 watt 12" woofer for all high power bass applications. Faital Pro 12HP1060.

Personally, I'd go with the MAS112. Pick your poison for which speaker. Different, but each is great.

And lastly, the Shuttle 9.2? Yeah. It'd work well with any/all of these. Al least I think so. Can't see a reason it wouldn't.
Thanks for all that great info, really good stuff!! Its all starting to make sense ;)
 
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