Double Bass 20 year old NS Design CR vs. barely used NXT4a?

[Alfisti]

Hi folks. I'm totally new to DB and looking to get something quality but reasonably priced.

Nearby I have found a CR4 for $1750, and an NXT4a for $1575. One is 20 years old, the other can't be more than a year or two old.

How much better is the CR than the NTX4a? Enough, that I should consider an older one, for more money? Or is it close enough I should go with a more "sure thing" in a barely used, nearly new NXT4a (which is strung with Traditionals, BTW).

Thanks

 

[Wasnex]

Hi folks. I'm totally new to DB and looking to get something quality but reasonably priced.

Nearby I have found a CR4 for $1750, and an NXT4a for $1575. One is 20 years old, the other can't be more than a year or two old.

How much better is the CR than the NTX4a? Enough, that I should consider an older one, for more money? Or is it close enough I should go with a more "sure thing" in a barely used, nearly new NXT4a (which is strung with Traditionals, BTW).

Thanks

IMHO age is not necessarily relevant. A 20-year-old bass could be mint or beat to shreds.

My experience is with a US Series 6-string. The current EU-6 is almost identical.

AFAIK the CR4 EUB has similar pickups and electronics with magnetic pickups and a pair of piezos. The EU series has an additional pair of piezos and a second blend control. My preferred setting was to blend a little bit of piezo in with the magnetic pickups. I did not feel the piezos alone sounded great.

One pair of the piezos in the bass I played became crackly and intermittent after a few years. I pulled the bridge from the bass and from what I remember. the piezos were very small foamy objects that were held in place by compressing the foam. I fiddled with them a bit and it seemed to reduce the crackle for awhile. Luckily the crackle was on the pair of pickups intended for arco and preferred the sound of the pair intended for pizz. I don't know if the piezo breakdown is typical, but they do appear fairly fragile.

NS Design was unwilling to provide any sort of over the horizon support. The wanted me to ship them the bass, which would have been fairly expensive due to size and weight.


The price for a new CR4M EUB is over $4,200, so that could be pretty good price if the instrument is in good condition and fully functional.

If possible, inspect and play both.

 

[Alfisti]

Thanks for the insight. One minor point- this is a CR, not CRM. It does not have a magnetic pickup... Only the piezo. Thanks

 

[Francois Blais]

Do you absolutely want an EUB?
If you want to get into DB playing, I’d strongly recommend you get the real thing.
I’m not against EUBs, I have one, and I also have a cheap DB.
Good luck!

 

[Wasnex]

Thanks for the insight. One minor point- this is a CR, not CRM. It does not have a magnetic pickup... Only the piezo. Thanks

Sorry, this is the first I have learned of the CR4 without the "M".

Found a new CR4 upright for $3849. A brand new NXTa 4 on the same website is $1849. CR4 has extended tone controls.

The NS Design webpage says both use the polar pickup system to respond to either vertical vibrations (pizz) or lateral vibrations (arco). AFAIK, each pickup has a pair sensors. The difference is the way they are inserted into the bridge. One pair is oriented to focus on vertical vibrations, and the other is oriented to focus on lateral vibrations. I believe the NXTa has a switch to select which pair you want. I believe the CR4 has blend control instead of a switch.

NXTa Controls: tone, volume, pizz/arco switch, active/passive switch
CR4 Controls: bass, treble, volume, pickup blend

The CR4 lists asymmetric relief on the fingerboard, the NXTa does not.

 

[Wasnex]

Do you absolutely want an EUB?
If you want to get into DB playing, I’d strongly recommend you get the real thing.
I’m not against EUBs, I have one, and I also have a cheap DB.
Good luck!

Good advice. I got the NS Design EUB because I wanted the sound of a fretless bass. It sounded more like a bass guitar than an acoustic upright.

I switched back and forth between fretted bass guitar and acoustic upright. I never could get comfortable playing fretless bass guitar, but was immediately comfortable on an EUB.

AFAIK, the EUB that sounds most like an acoustic upright is the Yamaha SLB300.

 

[Alfisti]

I understand it's not the same - not looking to take on the bulk or logistics of transporting out caring for a real DB right now. Thanks

 

[Francois Blais]

There are also some short scale EUBs, which would be even more portable and also easier to switch to for a BG player.

 

[Alfisti]

Thanks. I feel like, if I'm going to do this, I should get comfortable with the long scale. I do not know if I will stick with it... But want to try.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Ned Steinberger is brilliant, but as a designer he has absolutely no clue how doublebasses work so that entire line is absurd crap that has nothing in common with a real bass. I’ve played most of the range and the only thing worse than the feel is the sound.

If the OP is dead set on playing an EUB, they should run not walk to Bill Merchant and drop $3500 on a Vertical Bass. They’re handmade in the US, fold in half, and sound and play great.

 

[Alfisti]

Thanks - I have no doubt you are right. But that is outside my budget.

 

[Wasnex]

Ned Steinberger is brilliant, but as a designer he has absolutely no clue how doublebasses work so that entire line is absurd crap that has nothing in common with a real bass.

If your expectation is a bass that sounds and plays like an acoustic upright, I agree entirely. The NS design basses are in no way a proxy for an acoustic upright bass.

But if you want an upright scale fretless with its own unique voice, that is another matter. IMHO the NS Design US series 6-string I had the privilege of playing was a fabulous instrument. I used to switch between a 6-string fretted bass guitar, the 6-string NS Design EUB, and a nice traditional acoustic bass. I used whichever instrument I felt was best suited for the arrangement.

The most negative things I would say: IMHO they are too expensive for the value they provide. Build and design quality certainly does not justify the price. However, if the price for a new EU6 was $4K I would buy it.

I had two problems over about a 15 year period: 1. The piezos had some reliability problems. AFAIK this sort of repair requires sending the bass back to NS Design. The pizz pair of piezos remained functional for the entire time I used the bass, and I never used the arco pair of piezos.

2. The bass has a tendency to rotate on the tripod. If I remember correctly, this was not a problem when the bass was new. But over time the surfaces where the mount presses into the bass's body grew slick. Others have mentioned this second problem. This was only a problem because I switched instruments. It did not restrict my playing in anyway. But If I let go of the bass, it would rotate on the stand. Sometimes the headstock would come in contact with the floor. You could probably fashion some sort of rubber friction washer out of an old tire tube or something similar.

 

[Alfisti]

Thanks everyone. These are all really valuable and actionable bits of advice.

one thing I am taking away from this, from initial question - since the NXTa is active, and also built in The Czech Republic, the differences likely boil down to he quality of wood and a more capable preamp in the CR4 (more EQ options and a blend knob for the pickups vs the switch in the NXTa).

I am not sure those differences would be a big factor to me, so the newer model seems like a more attractive option.

thanks

 

[Wasnex]

Thanks everyone. These are all really valuable and actionable bits of advice.

one thing I am taking away from this, from initial question - since the NXTa is active, and also built in The Czech Republic, the differences likely boil down to he quality of wood and a more capable preamp in the CR4 (more EQ options and a blend knob for the pickups vs the switch in the NXTa).

I am not sure those differences would be a big factor to me, so the newer model seems like a more attractive option.

thanks

Given the price difference is 10%, I really suggest trying both. The CR4 is supposed to have an asymmetric fingerboard. The NXTa does not mention this feature. If you can afford either, choose the one you like best. If not, get the NXTa. But play it first if you can.

 

[Jon Moody]

Ned Steinberger is brilliant, but as a designer he has absolutely no clue how doublebasses work so that entire line is absurd crap that has nothing in common with a real bass. I’ve played most of the range and the only thing worse than the feel is the sound.

I don't think Ned ever intended the NS Design instruments to replace or ape the sound of the double bass as much as be its own type of crossover instrument. At least, that's what I read in his biography and what he told me.

one thing I am taking away from this, from initial question - since the NXTa is active, and also built in The Czech Republic, the differences likely boil down to he quality of wood and a more capable preamp in the CR4 (more EQ options and a blend knob for the pickups vs the switch in the NXTa).

I have both a CR-5M and a NXTa Omni and gig with them regularly. The preamp in the NXTa is very capable, but since I do a lot with pizz and arco, having the blend knob for the piezos (instead of the switch) is an important feature for me. That said, the feel between the two is going to be incredibly similar.

If I in your shoes, I'd probably go the NXTa route.

 

[mikeGJ]

CR will have two valuable upgrades over the NXT, a superior stand and quality tuning machines.

If the CR is in nice condition, these upgrades tip the balance to the CR, IMO.

 

[Wasnex]

I don't think Ned ever intended the NS Design instruments to replace or ape the sound of the double bass as much as be its own type of crossover instrument.

Exactly

This page has some videos with Tony Levin on NS Design instruments:

Tony Levin | NS Design Artist | Electric Upright Bassist CRM (thinkns.com)

In my experience the sound is very similar to a fretless bass guitar. However, the longer string length results in a much stronger fundamental. The B-string on the 6-string I played was stunning.

 

[Alfisti]

Hi everyone. In thinking about this little bit more I just have another question, something I would appreciate it if you could clarify for me. I totally understand how an eub can never sound like an acoustic upright, but, when you say that it plays differently, can you please describe how? Is it the physical aspect of not having a body to meet against and feel the notes? Is it the shape of the neck? My logic is, at some point in the future, if this "stick"s, I might consider getting an acoustic upright. Right now I do not want to devote the space and deal with transporting it. So I am figuring an electric would be a good intermediate step. But if it doesn't play anything like an acoustic, then maybe there's no point in this. I would just stick with electric bass at that point.
I'm also being honest with myself, that at this point, I have the money to buy an instrument, but likely not the time to make a full commitment. This could take me years. And that is okay with me, because I don't really have any goals here, it's just looks like something interesting and would be fun to learn. If learning to play an electric upright is truly a waste of time, and I would likely just stick with the electric bass. I don't have any real NEED to do this, it just looks cool and looks like fun.

 

[Francois Blais]

If you want to get a vertical bass that is more closely related to an acoustic, I think the NS Design's are the worst choice.
You can find a good acoustic with your budget.

 

[Alfisti]

If you want to get a vertical bass that is more closely related to an acoustic, I think the NS Design's are the worst choice.
You can find a good acoustic with your budget.

Thanks. I understand an acoustic is within the budget, but I do not want to have one hanging around the living room and I don't want to take on the care and feeding of a large acoustic instrument... Or have to transport it to lessons.

Which electric would you recommend? I need to stick to the $1500-1700 range.

Thanks