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2013 Ampeg V-4B 100W Reissue

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Only if it's a good 6L6.
Yes, I found a pdf of an old datasheet online and the rated max. plate voltage for 7027A was 600V with 35W dissapation.

In the NZ made Jansen Bassman the 50 used a pair of 6L6's and the 75 used a pair of 7027A's at a higher voltage.

As said earlier, the JJ 7027A and their 6L6 share the same guts and they seem to handle the 610V plate & 420V screen OK in the Jansens. I hope so - I've just installed a pair in my 75.

If Ampeg hasn't used the 'extra' pins on the valve sockets you could install JJ 7027A's to keep things really really real ;)

The (welcome!) decrease in weight over the originals sounds dramatic. Are modern transformers much lighter than the old ones?

The NZ Rockshop stocks Ampeg gear as well as the Fender 100T & 300. I wonder if they will get any of these in? Interesting days...
 
It'd be interesting to know if the reissue has plate voltages like the original.
Most 6L6 won't last long over 500V.
530 volts of B+ will weed out them out soon enough.

The JJ Invalid Link Removeds state a rated limit of 500V and 30W dissipation, same as their Invalid Link Removed as has been said. I haven't tried the JJ 7027s in a vintage V4 so I can't comment on the reliability of them at that level.
 
I can. I had one fail on a gig after just a few hours - on a gig no less. I thought something sounded off, and I glanced back and three were glowing, one dark. I was outside at night, so it was easy to see. I finished the set (last set) on 3.

I had bought the amp a month or so prior here off talkbass. It came with JJ's, so I bought a fresh quad of JJs for it and then had the failure. I replaced them with Sylvanias, and they ran problem free for the next 3 years (sold the head 2 mo ago).

I still have 7 JJ 7027's sitting here..I need to put them in the classifieds I guess.
 
That's rather unfortunate. The [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] seems to be rated the same. Vintage RCAs are rated for 600V. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that new manufacturers are putting out substandard product, but seems kind of a pain for vintage amp users. I had 6550s in my V4 so I never really ran into these issues.
 
6p3s-e ImageUploadedByTalkBass1375538003.725211.jpg
 
Are rated Invalid Link Removed. 375V for 6P3S and 250V for 6P3S-E. Here's another one, if you can read Russian.

I been trying to blow em up but they barely get warm. They were used by the Soviets in bomb door servos on their bear bombers. Way cool Cold War commie mojo.

And you have it backwards, the "e" variant is the rugged-ized military version of the 6p3s radio tube.

I did my due diligence in the radio forums where guys have been playing with these. Of course there's lots of eastern block poster that grew up with these and have been abusing them for decades.
 
Well if there's one lesson we should learn from the SVT, it's that tubes themselves aren't nearly as important as the overall design.

Actually, I think you've got it backwards. The tubes are what matters. The design of the amp has to respect the operating limits of the tubes, or the amp is going to fail. Period.

The reason that the SVT works as well as it does, even at those high voltages, is because it's designed to run on 6550. 6550 are robust tubes that were designed to run at extremely high voltages. They will laugh at the kind of voltages that will kill many a good 6L6.

The SVT is a great amp because it combines a robust tube that's designed to operate under extreme conditions, with a circuit that is designed to get the most out of those tubes under those conditions. Everything in the original SVT is designed to work well within the operating limits of the tubes, and the result is a monster of an amp.

So I'm scratching my head about this V4-B reissue. If you want an amp that's going to have all of the balls of the original, then it's going to have to run at really high plate voltages. There aren't any real 7027 in production today, all that we really have are 6L6 that aren't the equivalent of the 6L6 of yesteryear. And of course, that means they're not anywhere close to being a real 7027.

There haven't been any disclosures to indicate whether LOUD is being true to the original design with high plate voltages, or if they're taming the voltages down a bit in order to be easy on their choice of a less robust tube. The problem is that we might be looking at a lose-lose situation from an engineering standpoint.

If they're being true to the original design, with it's high B+ voltages, then their choice of 6L6 was just stupid, as the current production 6L6 aren't likely to last very long under those operating parameters. OTOH if they've chosen to lower the plate voltages to run the tubes under less strenuous operating conditions, then the result is going to be a less ballsy amp.

It's evident that they've given up on using real 7027, so they chose to change the tube specification. But what amazes me is that when they changed the tube specification, they decided to move DOWN a tube grade to a 6L6. What they should have done would have been to move UP a tube grade to a 6550. But doing that would require a circuit redesign, and the result would be a new amp rather than a reissue. Maybe the people who own the Ampeg name today aren't up to the challenge of engineering a new amp of this caliber from scratch. After all, the Ampeg name is now owned by Loud Technologies, which is colloquially known as the House of Crate.

If Ampeg were smart they would have chosen a tube that could easily handle the required operating parameters, like the 6550.

If they're taming the voltages to be easier on modern day 6L6, then IMO the amp isn't going to be much of a V4-B reissue, as the high voltages are what it takes to get the tone and power that earned the V4-B it's reputation.

I realize that I'm going to have to duck for cover as I say this, but I'm not at all excited about Loud Technologies bringing out a V4-B reissue that uses 6L6. I think it's going to be a disappointment. Depending on the voltages they used, it's going to be either a tube eater that will chew up and spit out 6L6, or it's going to be an emasculated poser that's designed to run on lesser tubes and will never reach the performance level of the original V4-B.

What they really should have done -- what I would have done if they hired me to engineer their new reissue -- would have been to design the V4-B to run on a pair of 6550 under operating conditions that are similar to having 1/3 of an SVT. Instead of doing that, the House of Crate just did a no-brains reissue of a circuit for which the required tubes aren't even available. In doing this, they chose to down-spec the output tubes to something that's not as good as what the original used.

This kind of thing happens when the company that designed the amp goes out of business, and their assets are bought by a company that markets a portfolio of products under different brand names that they've acquired. I'd really like to know if there's anyone at home at the House of Crate that really understands tube engineering. I'm beginning to really wonder. :/

Edit: I'm not an Ampeg-basher. I have a pair of SVT-2 Pro that I think are the bees knees, one being a USA/SLM model and the other being a Korean/Loud model.
 
What would be the issue with plugging in 6550's?

The old v4s were easily converted to 6550 use. I assume the same would hold true for the new RI.

As far as 7027a, the consensus around the web with tube gurus is that the RCA 7027 is simply a 6l6gc with a new envelope and pumped up spec sheet. I also read that the two pins on v4s are jumped together on the socket and have no other connection to the amp. I gather that and the big envelope help dissipate heat from the high plate voltage. What say you?
 
I've had a couple of comments re: the JJ 6L6/7027A that they will handle c.600V B+ OK so long as the screen voltage stays below c.450V
If simply a bigger envelope would aid dissipation then it is a pity that JJ haven't tried this to make a better 7027A.

I have considered the swap to 6550s for my Jansen, but I am concerned about the extra heater current taxing the original PT.

Excuse my ignorance here, but did the original V4B's run a quad of 7027A's for 100W?
(I've never come across one here in NZ - you do see SVTs though).

A quad of 6L6's for 100W is not terribly taxing, and the 100T uses this set up with many people saying it has good clean headroom. I would think that Ampeg would take this into account with their new V4B.
 
Ok. I admit it, I really want one of these amps. Feeling very nostalgic, even though I still think the Bugera is a better deal. I miss that lush push...now if I could find a beat up Peavey 118. I could have my starving musician's rig from the early 90s.
 
Yes they have a quad of 7027s. Consensus is that they generate 100 watts, at least.

When I bought mine I took it for a checkup to Gar Gilles of Garnet fame in Winnipeg and he hooked it up to an old Royal Canadian Air Force oscilloscope, pointed to it and said "look 100 watts, smooth, beautiful". I assumed that's what they put out since then. But I really don't understand the tech behind it at all.

I guess if you are really humping the pre section that 100 watts can be exceeded; at least that what I gather the Internet experts are saying about the old ones.

Now back to the 6l6gc, apparently the Russian Winged C brand, now defunct, work excellently in a v4. If I were to buy new v4b and couldn't get some nos American 6L6s for a reasonable price, I would look to those.

I'm not saying that JJ is no good, I've just read of a lot of guys toasting them after a year or two. Weird to me because i have 40 year old tubes that still ring the bell. Just seems wrong to not retube or at least have backup when there are alternatives that are boss and live long; at a cost.
 
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