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2x10s stacked vertically?

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brianhill

Oct 27, 2006
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#1
I'm thinking of getting two 210 GK cabs. I think they'd offer a great range of setups, and I really like the idea of stacking them vertically, like a 810 cut in half down the middle.

bad or good idea?
 
#4
I'm worried about being the guy who's blasting his amp on stage because all four speakers are aimed right at his knees. And yes i mean stacked on top of eachother sideways.

If i had them stacked that high, i could have the power of the 410 but have more sound going at my head than a normal 410 cab
 
#5
brianhill said:
I'm thinking of getting two 210 GK cabs. I think they'd offer a great range of setups, and I really like the idea of stacking them vertically, like a 810 cut in half down the middle.

bad or good idea?
Click to expand...

Many acoustic experts say that this array cancels comb filtering and projects better than the 4x10. I've done it and on stage though it doesn't have the girth of the 4x10. YMMV. Try it first.
 
#8
Sorry guys, i guess i should be more specific about what i meant.

i mean putting on 210 on its side and the putting the other 210 on its side on top of that.

like this:

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bill, do you have any information about why that setup wouldn't work well?
 
#11
Abso-friggin' lootley!

I gigged a pair of Bag Ends that way November through August and IMO - that's the only way to do it.

A major advantage beyond minimizing the combing is that it raises the top 10 closer to your ear and allow's for better stage monitoring at lower overall volume.

I've moved to a 2x12 and 2x10 setup so I'll be doing someting different next year. Not really quite settled in on my rig at the moment. Close but not quite there yet ...
 
#13
chadds said:
Many acoustic experts say that this array cancels comb filtering and projects better than the 4x10. I've done it and on stage though it doesn't have the girth of the 4x10. YMMV. Try it first.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I would expect quite a difference in the low end too, which might work for you or against you.

As for the comb filtering argument I'm going to put my head on the block and say that while I'm sure it has merit I don't totally buy that line of thought. To (over?)simplify things so this post isn't too long and boring, comb filtering arises due to the different distances between two sound sources (the drivers) and your ears. If you imagine two drivers side by side and you're out front, off to the left or right then the distance from you to each driver is different. The extra distance to the far speaker is effectively a delay which causes phasing problems as one sound wave arrives late and intereacts with the other. As you move around the relative distances change moving the frequencies at which the phase issues occur. If you're directly in front of it the distances are equal and things are better. If the stack is vertical you can see that you are basically the same distance from each driver.

So for a big pa if the drivers are arranged vertically then for the audience moving around in the horizontal plane, life is good. However if you are using your bass rig as a monitor system, standing reasonably close to it and have the drivers stacked vertically then things are different. You have maximised the difference in the distance between your ears and the top/bottom drivers. The top driver is much closer to your ears than the bottom one, the very cause of comb filtering. Because you are standing in the verticle plane relative to the drivers you have created a configuration analagous to laying out the speakers horizontally across the stage for the audience. For stage monitoring purposes a conventional 410 layout is much closer to a point source and might be the best compromise between what you hear and what the ausience hears. At least it's equal for both parties. Or so it seems to me.

The short version is what Chadds said, try it first.

Fire away! ;)
 
#15
el_Kabong said:
For stage monitoring purposes a conventional 410 layout is much closer to a point source and might be the best compromise between what you hear and what the ausience hears.
Click to expand...
The 4x10 is the worst of both worlds, as it combs in both the horizontal and vertical planes. But in any event combing in the vertical plane only matters if you're in the habit of playing while going up and down a set of stairs placed in front of your amp.
 
#16
billfitzmaurice said:
The 4x10 is the worst of both worlds, as it combs in both the horizontal and vertical planes. But in any event combing in the vertical plane only matters if you're in the habit of playing while going up and down a set of stairs placed in front of your amp.
Click to expand...
But Bill isn't it equally correct to say that it's also the best of both worlds? In fact a 410 is symetrical in both the horizontal and vertical planes. Good for the audience, good for the player. Or bad if you prefer but the same. Consistency between what the player hears and what the audience hears doesn't strike me as a drawback. And it's worst combing performance is going to better than the vertical stack's worst plane.

I was thinking about what you said with needing stairs for it to matter, I don't think you do. ;) Moving back towards the cabs or forwards toward the audience is going to do it. I mean, the delay from the extra distance to the most distant speaker is never going to longer than when your ears are in the same plane as the drivers (ie when your calves are touching the speaker grill) no matter how high up you go.

So I still reckon that a stage rig can be called on to perform for the player, who's more susceptable to the verticle plane, and the audience who move in the horizontal, so it's not cut and dried. Not to mention other things like boundary effect kicking in and simply the change of having a driver closer to your head. Which all in all means I agree with Chadds, ie suck it and see. :)
 
#17
The vertical 4x10" stack disperses much more evenly than a normal 4x10" and projects better due to its line array characteristics. The only downside is you lose a hump in the mid-bass due to the increased acoustic coupling of a square 4x10", which may be perceived as less bass. Combime the vertical 4x10" stack with a wall or corner position and you have a far more effective rig than a randomly placed square 4x10".

Alex
 
#18
el_Kabong said:
But Bill isn't it equally correct to say that it's also the best of both worlds? In fact a 410 is symetrical in both the horizontal and vertical planes.
Click to expand...
It isn't, that's the point. It sounds different in every spot in the room.
Consistency between what the player hears and what the audience hears doesn't strike me as a drawback.
Click to expand...
It's not consistent, for either the player or the audience. Comb-filtering isn't a static condition. A hundred people standing in a hundred spots will hear a hundred different responses.
And it's worst combing performance is going to better than the vertical stack's worst plane.
Click to expand...
Its worst combing as far as both the audience and player are concerned is on the horizontal plane. A vertical array has constant response on the horizontal plane.
 
#19
Stacking two 210 cabs is great in theory- until they topple over and crash on you, or someone elses equipment. If you play on rock-solid stages you are safe, but how often is that the case. I had a 210 and 1-10 rig I stacked, and it sounded good but was very unstable on many of the stages we played.
 
#20
badgrandad said:
Stacking two 210 cabs is great in theory- until they topple over and crash on you, or someone elses equipment. If you play on rock-solid stages you are safe, but how often is that the case. I had a 210 and 1-10 rig I stacked, and it sounded good but was very unstable on many of the stages we played.
Click to expand...

Was it really unstable or did it just look unstable? Two different things - or maybe subsidence is more of a problem in Texas... ;)

Alex
 

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