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3:00pm, band at. 5:00 pm
- Thread starter 4Mal
- Start date
thanks Stages Northwest - I always appreciate the opportunity to stuff 4 hours of work into 90 min...
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,077
- 46,035
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
PW - a Hemingway at Camp 1805 would have been a far worse choice but more in keeping with the theme of the day
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,077
- 46,035
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
I woulda been ready to bust into HRD and clean out their stash of Cockspur 12 rum. Link Removed
Glad you got through it. I thought I heard a few bits here downwind of the Event Site.
what's the setup?
i see two rather square tops per side over a couple of subs per side, then the one different sub in the middle on the grass there.
is that 5th sub doing some kind of tricky cardioid/end fire phase reverse thing to keep low end off the stage?
i see two rather square tops per side over a couple of subs per side, then the one different sub in the middle on the grass there.
is that 5th sub doing some kind of tricky cardioid/end fire phase reverse thing to keep low end off the stage?
front sub is a kw181 time delayed 12'. Square tops are PAS co-ax 12& 60x40 horn. Time aligned using bss mini drives and Smaart. pas 18's onstage shoved back 6' in time. Subs are aux fed. there is a pair of kw-181's under the dj tower. 3 k. 12's on top on delay as well.
The stage front kw-181 feels like an extension of my bass rig.
The stage front kw-181 feels like an extension of my bass rig.
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Two questions: Why the time delay and I thought subs had to be placed together because of some sort of cancelling. Have things changed? Sorry for what are probably stupid questions but I know very little about live sound and I'm trying to pick things up
sub is delayed to be time aligned with the tops.
Say you are 20' in front of stage , sound coming from the sub is gonna arrive at your ear first (closer to you) , then the sound of the top will arrive to you ( farther ) so the sub is delayed @ Approx. 12-15ms
Looks like there is only one sub , in the middle.
Probably fed with an aux or matrix.
Excuse my accent.
Say you are 20' in front of stage , sound coming from the sub is gonna arrive at your ear first (closer to you) , then the sound of the top will arrive to you ( farther ) so the sub is delayed @ Approx. 12-15ms
Looks like there is only one sub , in the middle.
Probably fed with an aux or matrix.
Excuse my accent.
What you have to keep in mind is that the time alignment is only good for one position. You delayed the center sub to the mains, but that's only standing next to it. If I'm standing 20' out at stage right looking at the stage. I'm 20' from the left stack (SR), maybe 25' from the center sub, and 30+ feet from the right sub (SL). The 12' time alignment probably makes a bigger mess than anything because the frequencies are going to hit the my position at different times because i'm not standing in the spot you time-aligned to.
It's simply a matter of setting the delays to do the most good for the most listeners. Unless you can put a speaker on every spot directly (you can't) it's all give-and-take on time-aligning. Yes you should do it when possible and when it makes sense, but there's no one magic number to put in the processor to make it "right" for every listening position.
It's simply a matter of setting the delays to do the most good for the most listeners. Unless you can put a speaker on every spot directly (you can't) it's all give-and-take on time-aligning. Yes you should do it when possible and when it makes sense, but there's no one magic number to put in the processor to make it "right" for every listening position.
Yep
What ever you do , whatever kit you have , there is no perfect solution , there will always be problem with time alignement and phase coherence except if your concert is in an anechoic chamber and you are alone
People have a weird, natural tendency to first go to the middle spot in front of a stage
What ever you do , whatever kit you have , there is no perfect solution , there will always be problem with time alignement and phase coherence except if your concert is in an anechoic chamber and you are alone
People have a weird, natural tendency to first go to the middle spot in front of a stage
Also, if the subs and mains are in the same plane, the mains are typically delayed maybe 7 or 8 msec. I don't put the subs under the mains if I can avoid it - I try to center them. For elevated stages, sometimes you can point one sub toward the back under the stage and phase shift it 180 degrees to reduce on-stage boominess. Here's why I try to center the subs (this is for outdoors with no nearby boundaries - indoors it's a crap-shoot).
I aim towards centered subs if possible. At this site, we're exposed to high winds and gusts of 50 to 60 are not uncommon. What you don't see yet is that the subs on stage are strapped together to form a very solid base... Way more supportive than anything I can accomplish with stands. Wind is a factor here in the wind surfing center of the universe... In this configuration, we cut back to 4 monitor mixes and run the PAS subs from an Aux and the KW-181 from a separate aux. Each of those auxes goes to a unique subgroup as that is where the time delay is applied on our boards. So we burn three of our sub groups on time delay leaving 1 for vocals. Not optimal but given the tools we have, it seems to work better than other things we have tried.
The 181 is doing the heavy lifting the PAS boxes are there to fill in.
I go remote with the iPad and walk the perimeter to strike the best overall balance for the system. And yeah, like most things in sound company life, you make the best series of compromises you can... It is a rather pragmatic business...
Given the event (Kiteboard 4 Cancer) and space, when there is music going the crowd tends to be with 75 feet or so. Beyond that there is river... For on the water we have the DJ tower which is truly punching a lot of air. Always glad I'm not in front of that as it is setup to push noise and announcing out over the river in a big way...
The 181 is doing the heavy lifting the PAS boxes are there to fill in.
I go remote with the iPad and walk the perimeter to strike the best overall balance for the system. And yeah, like most things in sound company life, you make the best series of compromises you can... It is a rather pragmatic business...
Given the event (Kiteboard 4 Cancer) and space, when there is music going the crowd tends to be with 75 feet or so. Beyond that there is river... For on the water we have the DJ tower which is truly punching a lot of air. Always glad I'm not in front of that as it is setup to push noise and announcing out over the river in a big way...
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to paraphrase donald rumsfeld, you load in to the gig with the PA you have, not the PA you want.
WOW, Walter...That is great!
I'm going to make a poster out of that and send it to all of my snooty production friends that bemoan the gear they work with, but can barely afford a ride to the gig!
