3/4 vs. 6/8 (time signatures)

[Kim Jong Funk]

OP, you getting all this?

Very simple answer. Easy Peasey.

 

[tuBass]

My point is it doesn't matter what the top number of the time signature is, it's the subdivision that gives it the feel. Duple or triple refers to the subdivision of the beat, not the number of beats in the measure.

That's why 3/4 has a different feel than 6/8, it's the subdivision of the beat. 3/4 almost always has three beats in a measure, but 6 subdivisions grouped in pairs, or duples. 6/8 usually has 2 beats in the measure, but the 6 subdivisions are grouped in triplets

 

[BassyBill]

Duple or triple refers to the subdivision of the beat, not the number of beats in the measure.

No, duple or triple refers to the number of beats in the measure. The terms for referring to the subdivison of the beat are simple or compound, as defined above.

 

[BassyBill]

OP, you getting all this?

Very simple answer. Easy Peasey.

It should be!

3/4 is used to notate simple triple metre (1 and 2 and 3 and 1 and 2 and 3 and...)
6/8 is used to notate compound duple meter (1 and a 2 and a 1 and a 2 and a...)

 

[Don Kasper]

My point is it doesn't matter what the top number of the time signature is, it's the subdivision that gives it the feel. Duple or triple refers to the subdivision of the beat, not the number of beats in the measure.

That's why 3/4 has a different feel than 6/8, it's the subdivision of the beat. 3/4 almost always has three beats in a measure, but 6 subdivisions grouped in pairs, or duples. 6/8 usually has 2 beats in the measure, but the 6 subdivisions are grouped in triplets

tu...
You're confusing/interchanging the terms "duple" with "duplet". While related, they are referring to different components of written rhythm.

 

[tuBass]

that may be the case, I'm sure different people call them different things

 

[mjmeche]

Cajun Waltz


Mazuka


Another Waltz which could be counted as 6/8

 

[Kim Jong Funk]

It should be!

Oh, I agree. I just like the firestorm that this has turned into. Ready to break out the popcorn at this point.

 

[JimmyM]

Parts of the song are in three ("but your | new shoes are | worn at the" = 3+ |1 2 3 | 1 2 3", for example). But the guitar figure is in 6/8 (or 12/8). The eighth note stays the same, but it's counted 1 2 3 4 5 6 | 1 2 3 4 5 6.

Edit: Actually, the phrase "but your new shoes are worn at the heels" starts at the end of a 6/8 measure. If I were transcribing it, I would start the 3/4 measures at the word "new." The words "but your" would be beats 5 and 6 of the preceding measure of 6/8.

Something like this:

View attachment 659543 I think this is actually a pretty good example of the difference between 3/4 and 6/8. In the first four measures (the guitar part), you can clearly hear how the measure is divided into two groups of three eighth notes each, so the pulse is 2 beats per measure. But in the "new shoes" part, you can hear that the quarter note is the beat, so the pulse is three beats per measure. The feel changes, but the eighth note stays the same throughout.

Sorry but I would have to disagree. Don't see much sense in switching time sigs every 2 bars in the chorus. You could make a case for writing the entire chorus in 6/8, yes, but you could also make a case for writing it in 3/4. But to me, it all has a 3/4 feel, especially since the verses are all 5-bar 3/4 phrases. I'd write it out like you did, but I'm not nearly that ambitious

 

[BassyBill]

Oh, I agree. I just like the firestorm that this has turned into. Ready to break out the popcorn at this point.

I don't see any firestorm - just an educational discussion. That's what this subforum is for.

 

[BassyBill]

Cajun Waltz


Mazuka


Another Waltz which could be counted as 6/8

I guess you could. But personally I wouldn't count any of those tunes in 6/8 - they've each got a strong triple metre feel.

 

[Febs]

Sorry but I would have to disagree. Don't see much sense in switching time sigs every 2 bars in the chorus. You could make a case for writing the entire chorus in 6/8, yes, but you could also make a case for writing it in 3/4. But to me, it all has a 3/4 feel, especially since the verses are all 5-bar 3/4 phrases. I'd write it out like you did, but I'm not nearly that ambitious

So, @JimmyM, are you saying you would write the guitar figure like this?

 

[Groove Master]

This kind of ambiguity is more on how to write the music instead of how it sounds because very often they do sound the same.

A simple rule of thumb would be that if triplets are really implied in the subdivisions then the 6/8 would be prefered.
But again this would be the same debate about how to write jazz music in either 4/4 or 12/8 which would sound the same but one would be much easier to read.

To show the the ambiguity about how each one interprete written music versus how it sounds I've seen the tune All Blues written in 3/4,6/8 and 6/4

 

[JimmyM]

So, @JimmyM, are you saying you would write the guitar figure like this?

View attachment 659632

I would make each quarter note an 8th note and count it half as fast, but yes.

 

[Febs]

I would make each quarter note an 8th note and count it half as fast, but yes.

So you would write it like this?

 

[BassyBill]

tu...
You're confusing/interchanging the terms "duple" with "duplet". While related, they are referring to different components of written rhythm.

You've hit on an important distinction here. The terms "duple" and "triple" are adjectives - they decribe the feel of the pulse or rhythm. The terms "duplet" and "triplet" are nouns - names for notes grouped in particular ways.

 

[JimmyM]

So you would write it like this?

View attachment 659642

Exactly. The whole thing has an overall feel of 3/4 to me despite having sections that could go either way, so I would stick with it throughout rather than changing the time sig every couple bars.

 

[mjmeche]

I guess you could. But personally I wouldn't count any of those tunes in 6/8 - they've each got a strong triple metre feel.

Compound time signatures
Main article: Invalid Link Removed
In compound meter, subdivisions of the main beat (the upper number) split into three, not two, equal parts, so that a Invalid Link Removed (half again longer than a regular note) becomes the beat unit. Compound time signatures are named as if they were simple time signatures, in which the one-third part of the beat unit is the beat, so the top number is commonly 6, 9 or 12 (multiples of 3). The lower number is most commonly an 8 (an eighth-note): as in 9
8 or 12
8.

An example
3
4 is a simple signature that represents three quarter notes. It has a basic feel of (Bold denotes a stressed beat):

one two three (as in a waltz)
Each quarter note might comprise two eighth-notes (quavers) giving a total of six such notes, but it still retains that three-in-a-bar feel:
one and two and three and
6
8: Theoretically, this can be thought of as the same as the six-quaver form of 3
4 above with the only difference being that the eighth note is selected as the one-beat unit. But whereas the six quavers in 3
4 had been in three groups of two, 6
8 is practically understood to mean that they are in two groups of three, with a two-in-a-bar feel (Bold denotes a stressed beat):

one and a, two and a
or

one two three, four five six

 

[BassyBill]

Here's a nice example of a tune with some interesting mistures of simple and compound meters going on in various places and for different instruments. I'd probably score this in 6/8 for the most part.

 

[DavC]

then there's those notations at the beginning of some music that say " swing " , turning things into triples..!

i think that is mostly for the ease of writing and reading the actual music ... it would be hard to read and notate all those triplets .. !!

i'd think of 3/4 as a Waltz , and associate 6/8 or 12/8 more with the Blues/Swing ...