3 Pickup Bass Phase Issue Questions

[JEDI BASS]

Hi all. Short history: I'm an amateur builder/repair guy. I can do refrets, routing, and am starting to build bodies w/ necks being next on my agenda. I am NOT strong in electronics, and have a lot to learn.

I apologize for the lengthy story below. but, it's all necessary to understand the issue and questions.

I just had this bass professionally modified (see thumbnail) by Carl Pedigo. I sent him the 3 pickups and 3-hole control plate. The lipsticks are single coils, and are much quieter than the Dimarzio P pickup. After some discussion, the bass was going to have 3 knobs: P volume, Lipstick master volume, and a tone for the lipsticks. Carl installed two mini-switches, one for selecting the lipsticks only, all 3 pickups, or the P only. The other switch was for selecting lipsticks: Neck/Both/Bridge.

Carl expected and encountered a phase issue. He's built 3 pickup basses before. The P and neck lipstick sounded phenomenal together. The P and bridge lipstick together sounded weak and horrible with no bottom. All 3 pickups on sounded somewhat better but still lacking. In the end, I decided on two output jacks: 1 for the lipsticks, and 1 for the P with the plan of using two amps at the same time. This meant one switch would be disconnected= producer switch.

After receiving the bass, I did not like the dramatic volume loss when going from single lipstick to both. I'm a fan of EMG so I decided to convert the lipsticks to solderless and installed a BTC-HZ, with active balance control (ABC), and I put 2 9V battery boxes in the back. The ABC helps some with the volume loss. At the same time, I removed both switches, enlarged the holes and the routed area, and installed two mini-pots: Vol & Tone for the P.

I then decided to order an active 2 channel mixer pedal (w/ phase switch) to allow me to use just 1 amp and MAYBE remedy the phase issue. As luck would have it, I received the wrong pedal today. They shipped one without a phase switch. I gave it a try anyways and sure enough... the bass sounds like crap when I play the P and bridge lipstick, and a little better when I play all 3 pickups together.

So... is there something that has evaded us that I can try? I understand how phase issues affect what we hear. But, I have NO real understanding of the electronics that can cause or remedy them.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[ctmullins]

Have you tried the obvious: swapping the hot and ground connections on the bridge lipstick?

 

[JEDI BASS]

Have you tried the obvious: swapping the hot and ground connections on the bridge lipstick?

Thanks. Carl did.

 

[JEDI BASS]

But, since I have the solderless connections, I can flip the plug over and see what happens.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

But, since I have the solderless connections, I can flip the plug over and see what happens.

Yeah, you have to wire those up in series. If not, you're going to have phasing, and a volume drop. Problem is, now it can't sound like a jazz bass, and those two blades in series is going to be a monster. But, it should still work out as one Bad butt mofo!!!

Either way, some phasing will still occur. It's the phenomenon of two pickups working together. But, it won't be as dramatic.

 

[Jazz Ad]

I will let others help you, just want to say that your bass is a lovely, well executed concept.

 

[charlie monroe]

Use the Force?

Sorry, this issue is above my pay grade. Want to echo JazzAd. Nice boom stick. The bass in your avatar looks to be no slouch either.

 

[ctmullins]

How does the bridge lipstick sound on its own?

 

[Jazz Ad]

Are your lipsticks of identical size ? If they are I'd just buy another neck pickup.

 

[JEDI BASS]

How does the bridge lipstick sound on its own?

It sounds great solo, no issues at all.

Carl texted me late yesterday. He thinks a phase reverse switch will work. I’ll just (of course) have to flip the switch off when I’m not using the bridge pup.

 

[JEDI BASS]

Yeah, you have to wire those up in series. If not, you're going to have phasing, and a volume drop.
Either way, some phasing will still occur.

Series is not something I want from the lipsticks. My inspiration for this bass was the Lakland Scheff model, and it did not have them wired in series.

The volume drop was expected, when playing just the lipsticks and switching from one solo’d to both. I’m used to experiencing that, although it seems more pronounced with these pickups. The EMG ABC has helped some. This phase issue with the P and bridge pickup is much different, though. It’s a total loss of any usable tone.

 

[JEDI BASS]

Are your lipsticks of identical size ? If they are I'd just buy another neck pickup.

Thanks for the input. No, they’re different sizes. And, I’d rather just tackle the phase issue.

 

[JEDI BASS]

just want to say that your bass is a lovely, well executed concept.

Thanks!

Nice boom stick. The bass in your avatar looks to be no slouch either.

Thank you. Yeah, that dual P is one of my favorites and sounds so so good!

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Series is not something I want from the lipsticks. My inspiration for this bass was the Lakland Scheff model, and it did not have them wired in series.

The volume drop was expected, when playing just the lipsticks and switching from one solo’d to both. I’m used to experiencing that, although it seems more pronounced with these pickups. The EMG ABC has helped some. This phase issue with the P and bridge pickup is much different, though. It’s a total loss of any usable tone.

Why dont you post a tone check? Like, sound clips of the different settings. Then we can all have a better idea of what you mean. Also, we'd all get to hear that beast!

 

[JEDI BASS]

Why dont you post a tone check? Like, sound clips of the different settings. Then we can all have a better idea of what you mean. Also, we'd all get to hear that beast!

Having no home studio or recording means, I’d have to do iPhone recordings. I can try to get something decent though, after I tackle my adulting list for the day.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Having no home studio or recording means, I’d have to do iPhone recordings. I can try to get something decent though, after I tackle my adulting list for the day.

Word!

 

[MaxSpinrun]

How does the bridge lipstick sound on its own?

It sounds very good. The different combinations of pups on this bass makes for some awesome tones. I have played it and I am very impressed. Definitely a very unique bass, well done.

 

[BrickBatMansion]

That is a beautiful bass. Love the pups!

 

[DJ Bebop]

Sounds like a phase issue as been said. Maybe bridge pickup out of phase with the rest. I modded this bass and put in phase switching for the three pickups so I could purposely put them in/out of phase. Vol, vol, vol, phase switchs for P and J pick ups.

 

[MaxSpinrun]

Very interesting. I love things different and out of the ordinary, but can still retain iconic tones.