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$300 head
- Thread starter tubatodd
- Start date
You are pairing with a 200W cab. Unless you are looking for some "reserve power" for when you upgrade your cab and have no intention of cranking the head until then, you shouldn't be looking for 200-250W heads anyway.
GK rates their heads pretty conservatively..sure, it may only be 125-ish watts, but it's pretty loud!! I had a MB200 for a while and ran it into a craptastic seismic 210 (8 ohms). It could keep up with a drummer that didn't smack the skins too hard.
Your profile shows that you have a TCE BG250-210. Are you looking for something that it's not delivering, or just wanting to get an amp head for the Hartke?
Some people say otherwise, but a good rule of thumb is to have your cabinet handle more wattage than your head can put out. 200w is total thermal meltdown for your cabinet, not a "recommended input wattage". GK also tends to be more humble with their ratings, the 200w is more like 200w RMS. I can't remember the exact figure, but on their heads you have the max output wattage, which is around 240-260w IIRC...if someone wants to double check and correct me please do. I pair my GK up with an Avatar Neo 2x10 that handles 1000w max and this sucker is LOUD! Drummers, guitarists with tube amps, and PAs are no problem for it. If you need more volume then you'd probably need to look at a more efficient cab when money allows, the head would not be your weak link in the chain.
The latest GK MB200 can be "chained" to one of their powered cabs if needed. I use one of the older ones with a Genz Benz Contour 210 extension cab (300W/8ohms) and it works really well IMO. It easily fits in most gigbag pockets and has DI out as well.
Answering some of your questions.
1. I am pleased with my TCE BG250-210
2. I am pleased with my current Hartke setup: Extracted head from my kickback combo set on top of my 210XL.
3. My goal is to buy a head that can drive the 210XL and give me some reserve power in case I want to get an additional 210XL.
4. I play with a big band/dance band and use no PA support. My current setup has more than enough headroom. I don't play in loud clubs. That's not my gig.
5. I'm wanting to put the head BACK into the kickback combo and buy a new head just for the 210XL.
6. Do I NEED this head?....................................................................no.
1. I am pleased with my TCE BG250-210
2. I am pleased with my current Hartke setup: Extracted head from my kickback combo set on top of my 210XL.
3. My goal is to buy a head that can drive the 210XL and give me some reserve power in case I want to get an additional 210XL.
4. I play with a big band/dance band and use no PA support. My current setup has more than enough headroom. I don't play in loud clubs. That's not my gig.
5. I'm wanting to put the head BACK into the kickback combo and buy a new head just for the 210XL.
6. Do I NEED this head?....................................................................no.
Todd, with all due respect, you are getting hung up on numbers and mfg ratings ... thats like setting the EQ on your amp based off of a picture in the manual and not changing it, no matter what, when you get on stage ... the difference between 120, 150, and 200 'mfg stated' watts is not only going to vary, it is also very misleading ... in almost every case, you are not going to 'hear' the difference in 'volume' between 150 watts and 200 watts, and depending on how you EQ, you can very easily set the 120-150 watt amp to be perceived as louder ...
... you may want to re-read my earlier post, I have gigged fairly extensively with the cab you have, I have owned three at one time, and currently have one left that I am not pushing to sell, as it has a buzzing driver ... a driver that went bad by the way with my being 'careful' with the cab and restricting the 'power' each driver receives in the 50-70 watts range ... the Hartke 210XL is designed for being the 'top' cab, in a biamp system, direct words to me from Larry Hartke ... I really like the sound of them at lower volumes, when combined with GK amps, very tight, very quick response ...
... for rehearsals, I used a MB200 and ONE 210XL ... guess what, I could fart the cab easily with the wrong EQ or too much volume (I almost always cut the bass on the MB200, and raise low mids slightly) ... to handle the full '200 watts' (?) of the MB200 I used TWO Hartke 210XL's, and even then would fart out on occassion when not paying attention ... 50-60 watts a driver with attentive EQ'ing will keep these cabs around and working well for you ... generally EQ'ing them this way will also cut better in a mix and seem louder as well ...
... again, not meaning to be condescending in any way, Todd ... we are on your side here, and just offering real world experiences ... I am not pushing a MB200 on you, just sharing my experiences with it based upon your criteria ... remember too, speaker surface generally increases volume (and usually bass response) significantly more than than adding another 50-100 watts of power output from an amplifier ...
... good luck with whatever you decide, I have one good used driver here that is a direct replacement, and designed for that cab that I am no longer using if you need it ... replacements are no longer available from Hartke ...
Edit to add: ...we posted at the same time ... by adding a 2nd cab it will substantially increase your output, whatever head you are using ... even one 'rated' at 200 watts at 4 ohms
... you may want to re-read my earlier post, I have gigged fairly extensively with the cab you have, I have owned three at one time, and currently have one left that I am not pushing to sell, as it has a buzzing driver ... a driver that went bad by the way with my being 'careful' with the cab and restricting the 'power' each driver receives in the 50-70 watts range ... the Hartke 210XL is designed for being the 'top' cab, in a biamp system, direct words to me from Larry Hartke ... I really like the sound of them at lower volumes, when combined with GK amps, very tight, very quick response ...
... for rehearsals, I used a MB200 and ONE 210XL ... guess what, I could fart the cab easily with the wrong EQ or too much volume (I almost always cut the bass on the MB200, and raise low mids slightly) ... to handle the full '200 watts' (?) of the MB200 I used TWO Hartke 210XL's, and even then would fart out on occassion when not paying attention ... 50-60 watts a driver with attentive EQ'ing will keep these cabs around and working well for you ... generally EQ'ing them this way will also cut better in a mix and seem louder as well ...
... again, not meaning to be condescending in any way, Todd ... we are on your side here, and just offering real world experiences ... I am not pushing a MB200 on you, just sharing my experiences with it based upon your criteria ... remember too, speaker surface generally increases volume (and usually bass response) significantly more than than adding another 50-100 watts of power output from an amplifier ...
... good luck with whatever you decide, I have one good used driver here that is a direct replacement, and designed for that cab that I am no longer using if you need it ... replacements are no longer available from Hartke ...
Edit to add: ...we posted at the same time ... by adding a 2nd cab it will substantially increase your output, whatever head you are using ... even one 'rated' at 200 watts at 4 ohms
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Lots of good info and recommendations so far. something that would be helpful is a clue about the tone you are looking for, the type of music you play, and how loudly you play. Several good amps have been recommended - they all sound different, and a few have a pretty strong tone built in. If I were looking for a clean, clear tone I would consider the Carvin and Markbass. The Carvin has much more flexible EQ, but lots of folks like the Markbass just the same. The GK's all have a strong flavor - the GK tone, that works very well with rock. Don't be afraid of used, especially from the TB classifieds. Think of them not so much as used, but proven.
If that's the case, then why are you basing decisions on what the output is at 8 ohms? The MarkBass Blackline may only be 150W at 8ohms, but that's more than enough to max out your current cab, and by adding a second cab you'll be at 250W at 4ohms thru 4 drivers which is going to be PLENTY loud.
(I do, however, agree even more with the posters who say you'd be better off buying used in the TB classifieds....but if you insist upon going new, this is my suggestion)
Lots of good comments. Like I said, my needs are rather basic compared to a lot of TB folks. I don't drive the 210XL hard at all. I typically keep my volume at 50% and sometimes boost to 60% and that is plenty.
I'm leaning toward the Carvin BX250 for the following reasons. (in no particular order)
1. Price. (I'd prefer to pay closer to $250 if possible)
2. Features (lots of tweakable parameters for tone. This is something that is severely lacking in the BH250 and my BG250.)
3. Size/Weight
4. Made in the USA
5. Wattage (I'm not as hung up about wattage as some folks seem to feel. Perhaps I've mentioned it too much)
6. Warranty. (I've heard great things about Carvin.)
7. Not interested in buying used right now. <puts on flame retardant clothes/>
Have I completely decided...not yet. I'm seriously considering both the GK MB200 and MarkBass Little Mark 250. I've played a couple of MarkBass amps and loved the tone. I've tried the newer GK combos but not the MB200.
I'm leaning toward the Carvin BX250 for the following reasons. (in no particular order)
1. Price. (I'd prefer to pay closer to $250 if possible)
2. Features (lots of tweakable parameters for tone. This is something that is severely lacking in the BH250 and my BG250.)
3. Size/Weight
4. Made in the USA
5. Wattage (I'm not as hung up about wattage as some folks seem to feel. Perhaps I've mentioned it too much)
6. Warranty. (I've heard great things about Carvin.)
7. Not interested in buying used right now. <puts on flame retardant clothes/>
Have I completely decided...not yet. I'm seriously considering both the GK MB200 and MarkBass Little Mark 250. I've played a couple of MarkBass amps and loved the tone. I've tried the newer GK combos but not the MB200.
No Flames here. I always try to go new with Amps and used for basses. likewise, I backed out of selling my Brand new BX500 because I can't offer a Warranty with it.
Hmm, really? I've read here on the TB amp forum that Carvin's CS (customer service) is bad.
For example: Page 14, Post #233 in this thread http://www.talkbass.com/threads/the-carvin-mb-micro-bass-combo-club.921253/
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Watts mean very little- the MB 200 is very conservatively rated--- plenty loud for small to medium gigs with a reasonable volume band thru the right Cabinet(s). Same goes for the TC Bh250.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I would try to play a Carvin if you know of anyone near you who has one. Obviously no stores, but to me worth a look at least.
Ordered the BX250. The main deciding factors were.................not wattage. It was actually features, price and size/portability. Carvin has a 10-day evaluation period. I will have a couple of rehearsals and performances (every Friday in June) coming up. One of those gigs will be at the beautiful Alabama Theater. So the timing will work out fine.
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The BX250 just arrived at my office. First impressions are outstanding. The head is feather-light (3.2lbs) and super portable. I showed a coworker who is also a bass player. He was impressed. Tonight I'll try it out at home. Tomorrow's rehearsal will give me a better idea. More to come. I'll keep updating this thread for anyone curious to see if I made the right choice.
Update:
I plugged the BX250 into my Hartke 210XL and set the EQ flat with no compression and no drive......just to get a basic starting point. I plugged in my Squier VM Jazz bass and was greeted with a wonderful tone. While the tone was nice, I wanted some tweaks. I pulled back some of the mids by moving the contour from flat to about 70-80% scooped. NOW we're cooking. Next I engaged the compressor to 50%. Finally, I put the drive on 7. OH....MY....GOD!! Amazing! I could not be happier.
The EQ is outstanding and you can truly dial in just about anything you can think of. The contour makes getting a great scooped sound as desired. The compressor does what you'd want a compressor to do. It just smooths everything out. I've used other compressors that just made the sound muddy. Finally the drive is done very tastefully. Unlike other tube emulators or drive boxes I've used, this drive adds color and overtones without just sounding like straight up distortion. Even set at 7, my sound was in no way distorted, but there were added harmonics that made the tone thicker.
Of all the gear I've bought this year, this may be my favorite. I'll report back after Thursday's rehearsal.
I plugged the BX250 into my Hartke 210XL and set the EQ flat with no compression and no drive......just to get a basic starting point. I plugged in my Squier VM Jazz bass and was greeted with a wonderful tone. While the tone was nice, I wanted some tweaks. I pulled back some of the mids by moving the contour from flat to about 70-80% scooped. NOW we're cooking. Next I engaged the compressor to 50%. Finally, I put the drive on 7. OH....MY....GOD!! Amazing! I could not be happier.
The EQ is outstanding and you can truly dial in just about anything you can think of. The contour makes getting a great scooped sound as desired. The compressor does what you'd want a compressor to do. It just smooths everything out. I've used other compressors that just made the sound muddy. Finally the drive is done very tastefully. Unlike other tube emulators or drive boxes I've used, this drive adds color and overtones without just sounding like straight up distortion. Even set at 7, my sound was in no way distorted, but there were added harmonics that made the tone thicker.
Of all the gear I've bought this year, this may be my favorite. I'll report back after Thursday's rehearsal.
Rehearsal Update:
My big/dance band rehearsed tonight. One trombone player, the pianist and drummer noticed the new head before we started. I had no idea they paid any attention to my gear. In any event, the BX250 sounded great. It fit the mix perfectly. I made only very small tweaks to EQ from my previous post. After reheasal, I received several complements. It really sounded great. I dialed in a few different tones to match the style of each tune. I'm very pleased with my new toy.
Next Friday I will have a 3 hour gig. I'm bringing the Carvin.
My big/dance band rehearsed tonight. One trombone player, the pianist and drummer noticed the new head before we started. I had no idea they paid any attention to my gear. In any event, the BX250 sounded great. It fit the mix perfectly. I made only very small tweaks to EQ from my previous post. After reheasal, I received several complements. It really sounded great. I dialed in a few different tones to match the style of each tune. I'm very pleased with my new toy.
Next Friday I will have a 3 hour gig. I'm bringing the Carvin.
