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32" Fully hollow Archtop Bass - build diary

honza992

honza992

Archdale Acoustic Bass
Supporting Member
Commercial Seller
Jan 25, 2006
438
780
Pietrasanta, Italy
#1
Hi All

I've started experimenting with making archtop basses. The next build will be #4. Here's a picture of #2 and #3.
IMG_20240814_162139.jpg


The construction of #4 will be much like a normal archtop guitar - fully hollow with a carved spruce top. This one will have a 32" scale, 4 string, 15.75" lower bout. This will be the first one to have 'f' holes rather than the oval soundhole.

I've got three goals with these builds:
- make an instrument that is inspiring for the player
- loud enough for home practise
- amplifies to give a warm natural acoustic sound

I'm NOT trying to achieve loud acoustic volume.

I'm really, really enjoying playing #2 and #3. Unamplified they sound much like what they are, low-pitched acoustic guitars. What I hadn't expected is how 'musical' they feel, in a way that I haven't felt with electric basses. They seem to ask for vibrato and slides and syncopation!

If you like that modern 'super jazz' compressed type sound, with perfect string balance and never-ending sustain then these are definitely not for you! Imagine something the direct opposite, and that's what these are like.


#2 was an archtop/flat top hybrid with a K&K piezo under the sound board. #3 was a true archtop with a Fishman matrix piezo under the saddle. Amplified, they definitely present some challenges in terms of feedback and string noise. So in parallel with this new build, I'm going to keep on fiddling with the other two.

I'm building this one as a 'demo bass' to take round the guitar shows in Italy, which is where I live (I'm English though).

I'm hoping I can use the collective wisdom of TB to refine the design. More on that later.
 
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#2
Beautiful work! I hope to try this myself someday, as a true hollowbody is the pinnacle of the art, IMO. Sub'd
From what I've seen of acoustic basses, the "Loud enough for Home Practice" is the big challenge. Of course the player will hear it, but most acoustic basses are easily overwhelmed by even a couple acoustic guitars unplugged. I'm curious to see how you can move enough air in such a nice slender body. I think the only really reasonably loud acoustic bass I've played had a huge body, like hugging a bear. The theory and practice of the internal bracing and top carving is something I am completely ignorant on, having built only solid-body electrics.
 
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#4
Woods will be Italian spruce for the top and Italian walnut for the back and sides. The neck will be flame maple. Here's the top and back:

IMG_20240813_170224.jpg


The top will be hand carved, no CNC here! You can see how the log get's split so the sides are matching and the grain is running a vertical as possible. This spruce is from the Fiemme Valley in Italy, the same trees that Italian violins have been made from for centuries.

IMG_20240719_110619.jpg
 
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#5
Gilmourisgod said:
Beautiful work! I hope to try this myself someday, as a true hollowbody is the pinnacle of the art, IMO. Sub'd
From what I've seen of acoustic basses, the "Loud enough for Home Practice" is the big challenge. Of course the player will hear it, but most acoustic basses are easily overwhelmed by even a couple acoustic guitars unplugged. I'm curious to see how you can move enough air in such a nice slender body. I think the only really reasonably loud acoustic bass I've played had a huge body, like hugging a bear. The theory and practice of the internal bracing and top carving is something I am completely ignorant on, having built only solid-body electrics.
Click to expand...
Thanks @Gilmourisgod . There's no doubt that acoustic basses are the chocolate teapots of the guitar world. When I say 'home practise' I mean at home, alone.....For sitting on the sofa these are perfect. Musical, responsive, authentic. But loud they are not. Actually they are probably loud enough to accompany a nylon 6 string, but only just. They've both got piezo's and feedback like crazy. Coping with that is one of the challenges for this build.
 
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#6
If you're open to a magnetic pickup instead of the peizo that would probably help with the feedback but I get it if not. Tim Sway just did a video on a magnetic pickup he's making for uprights and that was part of his reasoning, peizos feedback too much as soon as the volume starts to go up.
 
#9
Matt Liebenau said:
If you're open to a magnetic pickup instead of the peizo that would probably help with the feedback but I get it if not. Tim Sway just did a video on a magnetic pickup he's making for uprights and that was part of his reasoning, peizos feedback too much as soon as the volume starts to go up.
Click to expand...

Don't tell anyone, but this one will have magnetic and piezo pickups.....;)
 
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#10
rudy4444 said:
Click to expand...
Thanks Rudy, I remember that thread from when it first came out! That was a great build. I remember referring to your techniques when I was building my first semi-acoustic. Man how time flies.......

It's not quite what I'm building here. I'm building a true acoustic instrument. Here's inside #3 showing the bracing:
IMG_20240423_124253-2.jpg


The top of #3 was carved to between 3-4mm and the bracing runs from 8mm in the middle to less than 2mm a the side. This is why feedback is such a problem. This is a very lightly carved and braced top. Lighter than a normal 6 string guitar archtop. The trouble with bass guitars is that you are fighting physics. To get any bass response at all (acoustically) you need everything very light and flexible. My favourite luthier is Ken Parker, I've shamelessly stolen his techniques and am trying them on a bass.

I agree with @Gilmourisgod about building archtops. Carving by hand a 3mm top from a thick piece of spruce is a joy. A joy to make and a joy to play. As long as you're playing alone on the sofa. My challenge is to see whether I can amplify this incredible, sweet (low-volume) sound!
 
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#14
Do you have any shots of the interior of one of your basses, showing how the neck/body joint works? That's a whole lot of string tension. I have a semi-hollow in the idea stage, but I was thinking of running the neck beam all the way through so bridge and tuners are all on the same beam. I suppose that could be "relieved" at points along it's length to effectively join the cavities either side of the neck beam, but the top wouldn't vibrate acoustically like your builds. My son has a little Jay Turser Hofner clone with similar construction, and it's just loud enough to be audible unplugged, which makes it a great couch noodler. IIRC some of the Hofners are true hollowbody's, but I didn't notice much (if any) increase in volume of the semi-hollow versions when I played them side by side. Do you have a background building acoustic guitars? I've always wanted to try it, never worked up the nerve! Curious to see how you handle the top carve too, I was thinking of doing it with a "contour" method, routing successively higher (and smaller) planes decreasing in area as they approach the center, and then joining those "contours" with something like a finger plane. I'm sure there is a word for this technique, again I'm demonstrating my profound ignorance on the subject. I'll shut up now, and learn by watching.
 
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#16
honza992 said:
Hi All

I've started experimenting with making archtop basses. The next build will be #4. Here's a picture of #2 and #3.
View attachment 7015270

The construction of #4 will be much like a normal archtop guitar - fully hollow with a carved spruce top. This one will have a 32" scale, 4 string, 15.75" lower bout. This will be the first one to have 'f' holes rather than the oval soundhole.

I've got three goals with these builds:
- make an instrument that is inspiring for the player
- loud enough for home practise
- amplifies to give a warm natural acoustic sound

I'm NOT trying to achieve loud acoustic volume.

I'm really, really enjoying playing #2 and #3. Unamplified they sound much like what they are, low-pitched acoustic guitars. What I hadn't expected is how 'musical' they feel, in a way that I haven't felt with electric basses. They seem to ask for vibrato and slides and syncopation!

If you like that modern 'super jazz' compressed type sound, with perfect string balance and never-ending sustain then these are definitely not for you! Imagine something the direct opposite, and that's what these are like.


#2 was an archtop/flat top hybrid with a K&K piezo under the sound board. #3 was a true archtop with a Fishman matrix piezo under the saddle. Amplified, they definitely present some challenges in terms of feedback and string noise. So in parallel with this new build, I'm going to keep on fiddling with the other two.

I'm building this one as a 'demo bass' to take round the guitar shows in Italy, which is where I live (I'm English though).

I'm hoping I can use the collective wisdom of TB to refine the design. More on that later.
Click to expand...
Have you considered the LR Baggs Anthem? I know it's expensive (£349) but it's very good at negating feedback and allows you to mix piezo and mic'd sounds. I've always wanted to try one on an acoustic bass, but I've never found an acoustic bass to work on. Good luck!
 
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#18
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#19
rudy4444 said:
Honza,
I understand what you're going for. It's a tough nut to crack, but I'll be interested in what you come up with. It sounds like you might be familiar with Mottola's bass guitars and are working with some of those concepts.
Click to expand...

T_Bone_TL said:
There's also the Christopher Double Bass Guitar to look at, though I'm a bit concerned that he hasn't posted in several years. And his website is dead. Hope he's OK. IIRC soundhole plugs were part of making that more amplifier-friendly.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ch...htop-acoustic-electric.1266795/#post-19678793

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/db...e-momento-style-thread.1310513/#post-20570358
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions, I've seen both. They're sort of opposites. The Mottola bass is an attempt to make a true acoustic bass loud enough to play in a group. I've never played one, but I'm guessing they're not so successful. They're also massive.

The Christopher and the Rob Allen are both attempts to make an electric guitar sound like an upright acoustic . Don't get me wrong, I've owned a Rob Allen Mouse and it was an outstanding instrument. Likewise the guy who builds the Christopher is clearly an incredibly talented builder, with a design that gets closer to an acoustic upright sound than anything. But it's not quite an acoustic in the way I'm trying to build. I want to build an instrument that is an acoustic instrument in it's own right. Built using the traditional techniques of acoustic guitars. The downside is that it will only ever be loud enough for solo practise at home. And we'll see whether I can reduce the feedback or not......
 
#20
Max Bogosity said:
If nothing else, seeing this kind of build is a valuable reminder of how wildly overbuilt a solid body instrument is. We have people worrying about routing out too much material from a 2" plank, while this has everything depending on a 4mm sheet and a couple of popsicle sticks.
Click to expand...
The first time I strung it up to tension I was pretty terrified. :eek:
 
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