3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

[overbybr]

I think that's the whole point. How hard would it have been to change ONE thing to not make them look exactly like Darkglass pedals? Ditch the faceplate, use different knobs, use a different font, paint the enclosures, change SOMETHING. It's painfully obvious that these are designed to look exactly like DG pedals.

Hence my point that if all people care about are aesthetics, they need to hang it up.

 

[Bassgeer]

Umm....whut?

LOL! I guess I should have been more specific as to the magnitude of change! So looking at the two pictures that you posted, the most significant change is dispatching with the brushed, anodized aluminum top plate in favour of a more matte black look. A "switch" (forgive the pun) to both different stomp switches and toggle switches are the only changes visible from this view. Doug also moved to custom machined aluminum enclosures, which have a distinctly different look from the sides than the brushed appearance on the US era ones. Fore the sake of nitpicking, the corners are also rounder on the Finland ones.

The Duality underwent the most significant change, from the industrial an understated raw hot rolled steel plate (a look that was favoured by Spencer), to a flashy and in-your-face mirror plate that demands equivalent visual attention to the awesome sound of the pedal.

The newer offerings from Darkglass are a further departure from this aesthetic (see the SuperSymmetry comp in it's sci-fi chic), and I suspect that future pedals will be in this vein. (I hope that out of everything I wrote this wasn't your one takeaway, I felt that it was the least relevant of my point)

I am not trying to defend Spencer or attack Doug (as I rock equipment from both of them), I guess I am just surprised at the vehemency of reaction from some people. It isn't like Spencer is robbing the blind or kicking puppies. What about Ibanez, Digitech, etc. "stealing" Boss's asthetics and case design? And was it even originally boss that came up with that look?

 

[Kirk Bryant]

The visual aesthetics and look of a pedal is the absolute last thing I think about. There are also not too many different layouts that make sense for any given pedal. 1) does it sound good? 2) is it an intuitive layout
3)can I afford it?.............4,5,6,7,8 9, ............how does it LOOK. "And look at my pretty pedal, I'm cool"

 

[behndy]

I am not really interested in taking sides here, as there is too much information that occurred behind the scenes in the Darkglass / 3Leaf relationship for anyone to really be justified in proclaiming that one party or the other was in the right or wrong, but I reject the base premise of your argument.

Saying that the Fender clones are somehow an entirely different scenario because they failed to properly copyright the design is granting moral superiority to the Sadowskys and Laklands of the world for profiting off of Fender's design based on a legal blunder. So it is ok for people to rip off someone else's design as long as they aren't breaking patent law? I mean technically yes, it is, but this whole argument against Spencer's designs are morally based anyways. I mean, all the companies making fender clones are (at the minimum implicitly) claiming that their basses are better than Fender's, and they all claim to capture that classic "P" or "J" tone. So sure, Spencer's new pedals look like Darkglass's but he is definitely not claiming that they sound the same!!!

Also, if Doug had neglected to "copyright his design properly", I guarantee that none of Spencer's detractors would be any less upset.

Lets call it what it is, Spencer made an overdrive and preamp that may or may not share some similarities with the Darkglass design in terms of general circuit architecture, but there are only so many ways to develop an overdriven signal! Sure maybe the aesthetics could have been different (and if they were, this discussion probably wouldn't be happening), but I can get that he was attached to the look and wanted to keep it going. Darkglass was quick to change the enclosures and aesthetics of their pedals after the split with 3Leaf, so obviously they have moved on from that look.

that is a lot of words. meh.

he ripped off someone he worked with, trying to use their popularity as a springboard.

 

[ole Jason]

Will the Vulcan be available in black?

 

[overbybr]

This is like comparing a club sandwich and a tuna sandwich based on the bread alone...

"They're both on wheat bread! They're the same sandwich!!!!!!"

 

[Bassgeer]

that is a lot of words. meh.

he ripped off someone he worked with, trying to use their popularity as a springboard.

LEMON FLAVORED VAGINAL ASTRINGENT IN SO MANY WAYS.

Yeah, being concise has never been one of my strong suits... I didn't realize how long that ended up until I posted it. Mad props to anyone that gets through it?

Will the Vulcan be available in black?

That would be a calamity of reprehensible proportions and subject to justifiable indignation.

I never figured that the effects forum would see a discussion this polarizing and subjective (I though that was for the bass and amp peoples )

 

[mmbongo]

Will the Vulcan be available in black?

 

[XXL]

Damn.. Here I was really hoping for one of the new pedals to be a 3leaf funky phaser.

 

[monkeyfinger]

I for one will be happy to see a bass preamp pedal with DI that has controls of the DG B7K but without the weird eq points and that horribly scooped mid. If that is what Spencer is producing, sign me up.

 

[MDBass]

Hence my point that if all people care about are aesthetics, they need to hang it up.

The aesthetics and layout being identical aside from the color and a few words immediately made people think that the circuit design was identical (or "borrowed") as well.

That's a pretty reasonable assumption to make, and Spencer should have expected it; whether he did (and this is a genius marketing move that now has message boards all across the internet talking about his new brand) or he didn't (and this ends of seriously hurting the sales of what may otherwise be a unique and excellent design) only time will tell.

 

[dannybuoy]

Also, people forget that the majority of bassists do not frequent Talkbass, and therefore don't give two hoots about all this drama.

 

[zekebass808]

The aesthetics and layout being identical aside from the color and a few words immediately made people think that the circuit design was identical (or "borrowed") as well.

That's a pretty reasonable assumption to make, and Spencer should have expected it; whether he did (and this is a genius marketing move that now has message boards all across the internet talking about his new brand) or he didn't (and this ends of seriously hurting the sales of what may otherwise be a unique and excellent design) only time will tell.

Well said, that pretty much nails it.

That potential "downside" seems to be all about branding and folks who have hangups about that (including but not limited to folks who love to look at pedals, or have others look at them, as opposed to play them). DG fans may automatically assume it's just a clone/ripoff, while 3LA fans may get tripped up on the different branding in their own right (like some of the posters wishing the pedals were housed in 3LA enclosures).

 

[Deadsound]

I'm sure the circuits are different and Spencer worked hard on them. I'm sure the pedals are fantastic. I would purchase one or both if they were in 3Leaf enclosures and not obviously trading on the Darkglass brand. The best creative work always stands on the shoulders of giants. But this is a retaliation, plain and simple, so I'm done with 3Leaf.

 

[Dave W]

I for one will be happy to see a bass preamp pedal with DI that has controls of the DG B7K but without the weird eq points and that horribly scooped mid. If that is what Spencer is producing, sign me up.

I'm on board with this idea. I like the DG sound for certain things but it just doesn't work all that well in my current band.

(like some of the posters wishing the pedals were housed in 3LA enclosures).

I just really like the 3Leaf enclosures and top jacks. I once asked Spencer if I could purchase a few blank enclosures for rehousing other pedals. An all 3Leaf board would be awesome.

 

[overbybr]

^

Once he runs out of the old-stock enclosures, it would be great to see them with top-side jacks

 

[cnltb]

how i read his whinging on about being left with drilled yet mysteriously differently drilled enclosures?

lol. it's realllllly obvious he's putting out a very similar looking, very similar sounding od. not cool.

maybe he drilled them incorrectly and that's why he kept sitting on them?

 

[overbybr]

I don't think he does the manufacture of the enclosures, just the designs.

 

[cnltb]

I don't think he does the manufacture of the enclosures, just the designs.

So;...if someone else mis-drilled( as the case may or may not be) he should not have extra costs, right?
They should shoulder that since they are he ones that caused the boxes being unusable for their intended purpose. No?

 

[DirtyDuke]

Guys. The Vulcan XL is not misdrilled. It is the exact enclosure as the B7K which supports the claim of having left over enclosures

It's the Vulcan that has the different location as the VMT.

Ever think Spencer was stuck with B7K enclosures and made the reg Vulcan to match?

Or just stick it to DG? Depending on your perspective.