3Leaf Audio Club - Episode 2

[MAFbass1992]

Crazy price, but I've never seen another before (not even listed on 3Leaf's legacy page):
Pike Amplification Vulcan XL - Custom Wood Front | Reverb

Link Removed

This is just crazy... You can have a lot of things for 3k CAD. It's a great pedal but come on!!

 

[Halabja]

This is just crazy... You can have a lot of things for 3k CAD. It's a great pedal but come on!!

I could more than cover my remaining pedal “to buy” list with that kind of money.

I could also buy good “company” in Miami with that kind of money.

 

[Chace90]

3Leaf Audio Proton V4 Envelope Filter 2023 3Leaf Audio Proton V4 Envelope Filter 2023 | Reverb

1st one up from the most recent run?

 

[LaMarr]

Real question - What bass model would benefit from the preamp?

I just assume anything with a cavity that large without mods already has a preamp, that you just paid for.

 

[labeledbass]

Wow! I come back and theres over 70 posts... hes got our attention, I'll say that

Hmmm Re-reading the pricing on the combos again from the email... this part:
View attachment 5174124

Does that mean if I want just the Blue Preamp kit, you would have to buy/pay for BOTH Red and Blue module combo?

If so, I retract my previous offer. I don't need both, and not going to spend estimated $300 for both to get the one I want.

Is that how ya'll are taking that as well? Normally Preamp kit is $222 and Pedals about $333 for recent releases.

Yep, one is discontinued, so you must buy it? Lol

I have two of the same limited edition Warwick Corvette model’s, and it’s my main bass (hence the backup), so I’m wondering if the preamp will be any sort I’d actual upgrade on the stock preamp..

still, It rubs me the wrong way how this was worded in a way that makes it seem like we’re in great benefit for this “heavenly” bundle.

I find pickups have more influence, and if you absolutely need to add something to a warwick, Aguilar works great, simple and effective. I have a OBP2 and 3 in two of my Streamers

To me, the funniest thing here is that many MANY of us would not entirely complain buying a 3 Leaf second hand on Reverb for $500 or $600 in 2023. It looks like today’s equilibrium price.

Look at the last DOOM2s sold on Reverb. Many sold for 900/1000…

For less than that, you have a preamp (that looks very interesting on top of that !)
And the pedal is not a used one.
And there will be less competition when they will be up for sale.

Scammers are selling for $1000. Some people buy and feed the scammers.
And the brand new pedals sold out in less than a minute. There is a toxic market behavior that does not support the producer.

I am not that surprised the model eventually adapts.
And you know what, at $500 there is still room for profit !!!
I am sure some will still sell for $900 or $1000 in a month.

While I would not be happy to pay a higher price too, I am always happy to support a small business I like.

Instead of telling how he should run his business, maybe we should start to reconsider our purchasing behavior.

If I saw someone pay that much I'd slap them, seriously have to wonder if people make second accounts to justify the sale, and sales after that. I know I used to do that back in the day with ebay, and it worked

Im not even sure I believe Reverb prices anymore. Could easily be people “selling” them to friends back and forth to inflate the price. I barely believe a damn thing about the Internet and/or this economy anymore.

I wonder that too, enough push back and forth, voila - new market

Continuing love from folks like Tim Lefebvre (namesake of the Octabvre) pretty much means Spencer can do whatever he likes, I imagine. They're definitely some of the 'hippest' pedals to have, from what I can tell. I don't think he's hit a Fulltone moment, so folks might as well resign themselves to the Emperor's whims. Based on this and other emails he's sent out, I really don't think he cares what anyone thinks. He makes what he makes, charges what he charges, sells out every batch, and heads to the mountains.

Maybe we're going about this all wrong, I wonder what Tim would think about this "promotional offer"..

Real question - What bass model would benefit from the preamp?

I just assume anything with a cavity that large without mods already has a preamp, that you just paid for.

There's so many other options out there with more features at this price point. And, in turn there's many others that are this simple at half the cost. If this is such a revelation of a preamp, then why don't they sell? Honestly, it's probably his easiest item (other than knobs and switches) to stock, as I'm sure he's not making these in house.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

Real question - What bass model would benefit from the preamp?

I just assume anything with a cavity that large without mods already has a preamp, that you just paid for.

Thats what makes this so goophy.

 

[Erithon]

To me, the funniest thing here is that many MANY of us would not entirely complain buying a 3 Leaf second hand on Reverb for $500 or $600 in 2023. It looks like today’s equilibrium price.

Look at the last DOOM2s sold on Reverb. Many sold for 900/1000…

For less than that, you have a preamp (that looks very interesting on top of that !)
And the pedal is not a used one.
And there will be less competition when they will be up for sale.

Scammers are selling for $1000. Some people buy and feed the scammers.
And the brand new pedals sold out in less than a minute. There is a toxic market behavior that does not support the producer.

I am not that surprised the model eventually adapts.
And you know what, at $500 there is still room for profit !!!
I am sure some will still sell for $900 or $1000 in a month.

While I would not be happy to pay a higher price too, I am always happy to support a small business I like.

Instead of telling how he should run his business, maybe we should start to reconsider our purchasing behavior.

While I agree that it is good to support small business and that it is not productive to tell Spencer how to run his business (which is why I chose not to email him), I believe that your argument is missing some critical context.

1. You write as if this situation is the fault of consumers. It's not. It is of Spencer's own making. He has the right to do what he wants, but his customers also have the right to question and to criticize. If his priority were curtailing flippers, he would produce more pedals, release them regularly, and communicate his intent to continue to do so. (See my earlier post for more on this.) The fact that he has not announced any such plans only fuels the uncertainty than has surrounded the brand for several years now.
2. You say that many Doom 2s have sold for $900 or $1000--that's true, but the bulk of those sales happened at the height of the pandemic in 2021 and 2022 when the whole boutique pedal market was inflated--and, crucially, when Spencer disappeared (no one was able to contact him) and 3 Leaf Audio seemed to have closed. The average prices have considerably dropped in the past year. I know, because I bought or traded for 4 Doom 2s, 1 Octabvre MKII, 1 Octabvre MKIII, and 1 Chromatron on the secondhand market between August 2022 and the start of this latest 3 Leaf Audio activity.
3. Just because flippers are listing at $1000 doesn't mean people are buying at that price. People can list pedals for whatever they want. That's not meaningful data in and of itself.
4. You write that "Some people buy and feed the scammers." Very true. But inflating the price of the Octabvre MKIII (which is effectively what's happening here since most people won't use an on-board preamp) validates those higher prices.
5. Does anyone really care that the pedal is new? The thriving secondhand pedal market suggests consumers primarily care that a pedal works, not whether it's new or not. I don't see how this is a serious selling point. The unique "Miami" finish perhaps, but the "new" status? Naw.
6. Your are right that getting a preamp isn't a bad thing. They do look interesting. I remember checking them out when they first appeared on the website. But compelling customers to buy one is manipulative. If Spencer wants or needs to sell them to recoup capital or to just get more folks experiencing them, then he should have offered an optional preamp add-on at a discount. I bet a lot of people would have been curious to try them out.
7. The pedals selling out in under a minute isn't toxic market behavior. Nor does it "fail to support the producer." Quite the opposite. (Again, see my previous post for how to address the rapid sales.)

I've defended Spencer's approach many times, but not this time.

 

[Romain909]

While I agree that it is good to support small business and that it is not productive to tell Spencer how to run his business (which is why I chose not to email him), I believe that your argument is missing some critical context.

1. You write as if this situation is the fault of consumers. It's not. It is of Spencer's own making. He has the right to do what he wants, but his customers also have the right to question and to criticize. If his priority were curtailing flippers, he would produce more pedals, release them regularly, and communicate his intent to continue to do so. (See my earlier post for more on this.) The fact that he has not announced any such plans only fuels the uncertainty than has surrounded the brand for several years now.
2. You say that many Doom 2s have sold for $900 or $1000--that's true, but the bulk of those sales happened at the height of the pandemic in 2021 and 2022 when the whole boutique pedal market was inflated--and, crucially, when Spencer disappeared (no one was able to contact him) and 3 Leaf Audio seemed to have closed. The average prices have considerably dropped in the past year. I know, because I bought or traded for 4 Doom 2s, 1 Octabvre MKII, 1 Octabvre MKIII, and 1 Chromatron on the secondhand market between August 2022 and the start of this latest 3 Leaf Audio activity.
3. Just because flippers are listing at $1000 doesn't mean people are buying at that price. People can list pedals for whatever they want. That's not meaningful data in and of itself.
4. You write that "Some people buy and feed the scammers." Very true. But inflating the price of the Octabvre MKIII (which is effectively what's happening here since most people won't use an on-board preamp) validates those higher prices.
5. Does anyone really care that the pedal is new? The thriving secondhand pedal market suggests consumers primarily care that a pedal works, not whether it's new or not. I don't see how this is a serious selling point. The unique "Miami" finish perhaps, but the "new" status? Naw.
6. Your are right that getting a preamp isn't a bad thing. They do look interesting. I remember checking them out when they first appeared on the website. But compelling customers to buy one is manipulative. If Spencer wants or needs to sell them to recoup capital or to just get more folks experiencing them, then he should have offered an optional preamp add-on at a discount. I bet a lot of people would have been curious to try them out.
7. The pedals selling out in under a minute isn't toxic market behavior. Nor does it "fail to support the producer." Quite the opposite. (Again, see my previous post for how to address the rapid sales.)

I've defended Spencer's approach many times, but not this time.

My previous message does not lack any context, we just slightly disagree on a few points, which is fine.

1. I do consider it is the customers fault for the situation. Of course, not all of them, but flippers that purchased from Spencer are customers too.
Of course we're all free to question and criticize, but we're also free to pass, buy used, or buy a totally different brand.
Of course, producing more, and assuring that there will be more pedals in the future helps fight impatience and uncertainty and thus inflation. But what if we does not want to produce more, or what if he can't ? I see the production size as a fixed variable.

2. You're certainly right. Yet the cheapest DOOM2 of the last batch sold for $525 on Reverb. The most expensive sold for $1100, and the average price is $885.

3. You can check what an item sold for on Reverb. While there is room for manipulation, I consider this does not totally invalidate the market situation Reverb depicts. Customers do buy 3 Leaf pedals for $600 and more on Reverb.

4.Agree. But with fixed quantities, increasing the price is the only rational decision to take.

5. At least, I do care. I like keeping my items as mint as possible. I don't consider myself collecting pedals, but considering myself a strict collector in different hobbies, I prefer buying a pedal new and complete.

6. I guess he needs to sell them and do not want to bargain them.Which I understand. But that is indeed a curious way to sell them.

7. No. I meant that buying from the producer in order to sell on Reverb with a 100 / 150% price increase, and actually finding a customer that is OK with that price is toxic.

In the end, he could have just increase the price to $500 without any explanation in order to be closer to the secondary market's average price. An yet, the pedals would still sell for this price ...

In the end, this frustration looks a lot like a communication problem. Not a price problem.

 

[oomo]

In the end, this frustration looks a lot like a communication problem. Not a price problem.

Makes sense to me, I think it would have been received quite differently if the blurb was:

"For this batch, owing to huge demand (and the practice of some people immediately reselling my pedals), I've taken the difficult decision to increase the price to $550. While I appreciate that this is a big hike, it means that the proceeds end up going towards the development of new pedals and more stock in future, rather than me taking a slim cut and the majority going to resellers.
To lessen the blow a bit, I've decided to throw in one of my Anima preamps for free with each order. If you really don't want one, let me know with the order, but otherwise feel free to try them out or sell them on."

 

[Romain909]

Makes sense to me, I think it would have been received quite differently if the blurb was:

"For this batch, owing to huge demand (and the practice of some people immediately reselling my pedals), I've taken the difficult decision to increase the price to $550. While I appreciate that this is a big hike, it means that the proceeds end up going towards the development of new pedals and more stock in future, rather than me taking a slim cut and the majority going to resellers.
To lessen the blow a bit, I've decided to throw in one of my Anima preamps for free with each order. If you really don't want one, let me know with the order, but otherwise feel free to try them out or sell them on."

PRECISELY.

 

[stenomattia]

The part mentioning the 50 pieces reserved for current and future international orders ad ons confuses me, not sure what that means (I'd be placing an international order). Does it mean that non US buyers cannot purchase the pedal (in the form of bundle) today? Or that we can reserve the pedal? Without the preamp? Wording is very confusing, any thoughts?

 

[Derek Williams]

The part mentioning the 50 pieces reserved for current and future international orders ad ons confuses me, not sure what that means (I'd be placing an international order). Does it mean that non US buyers cannot purchase the pedal (in the form of bundle) today? Or that we can reserve the pedal? Without the preamp? Wording is very confusing, any thoughts?

To reserve one for an international order you need to place an order during one of the drops. So if you were to get in on this drop, or one of the coming Doom 2 or Photon drops, you could combine an Octavbre with it as well (from current stock, or from a later drop).

 

[stenomattia]

Thank you Derek. So if I understand correctly, does it means that I could reserve an Octavbre during today's drop (from the 50 pieces stock reserved for International orders) to be bought in conjunction with another product as an add on (let's say a Doom2 pedal), and avoid the preamp bundle shamble? I'd happily purchase/order the Octabvre and the Doom2, and avoid the preamp. As I haven't purchased from his website yet, I'm new to this preorder/add on method! Thanks!

 

[Derek Williams]

Thank you Derek. So if I understand correctly, does it means that I could reserve an Octavbre during today's drop (from the 50 pieces stock reserved for International orders) to be bought in conjunction with another product as an add on (let's say a Doom2 pedal), and avoid the preamp bundle shamble? I'd happily purchase/order the Octabvre and the Doom2, and avoid the preamp. As I haven't purchased from his website yet, I'm new to this preorder/add on method! Thanks!

I don't believe so. But since Spencer stated he is saving some of the current batch for international customers, I assume that if you were to get a Doom 2 in the September drop you can request an Octabvre at that time.

 

[stenomattia]

Yes that makes sense, re-reading the email. I'll try to get on the drop this evening and see what options are available for International orders, and take it from there. Alternatively I'll attempt the Doom2 route next month. Thanks for your time!

 

[fretless Bob]

Despite being in the market for a 3 knob preamp, this is a hard pass for me because the preamp utilizes two switches. It is useless for 98% of the basses out there, I’d say. How many basses out there could possibly use this? This is just an extortive way to move inventory…Bad inventory that would never sell. The guy is a tool.

I have the Pre in 2 New York Bass works basses made by David Segal and i think its better than everything else out there, and as somebody else has already pointed out the switches are optional… if you need a pre for a bass and want a MKIII i guess this is for you… 3leaf make the best poopie, we all know that.

I’m sure he’ll do a drop that isn’t part of a bundle next so i guess if you don’t want a preamp wait till then…

I was a die hard vintage fender only nothing else would do apart from my pre cbs p bass for a whole decade until I heard this pre in an NYBW, more people should know it exists.

Dave

 

[Derek Williams]

I have the Pre in 2 New York Bass works basses made by David Segal and i think its better than everything else out there, and as somebody else has already pointed out the switches are optional… if you need a pre for a bass and want a MKIII i guess this is for you… 3leaf make the best poopie, we all know that.

I’m sure he’ll do a drop that isn’t part of a bundle next so i guess if you don’t want a preamp wait till then…

I was a die hard vintage fender only nothing else would do apart from my pre cbs p bass for a whole decade until I heard this pre in an NYBW, more people should know it exists.

Dave

It's funny, I am interested in trying one of these preamps but wont be getting one from this coming drop. On the plus side, looks like I should be able to pick one up on the used market soon.

 

[Romain909]

It's funny, I am interested in trying one of these preamps but wont be getting one from this coming drop. On the plus side, looks like I should be able to pick one up on the used market soon.

Exact same ahaha

 

[Mighty Thumb]

It's funny, I am interested in trying one of these preamps but wont be getting one from this coming drop. On the plus side, looks like I should be able to pick one up on the used market soon.

Exact same ahaha

Same same
Also, I don’t think this will slow down how quickly the Octabvre sell out at all.

 

[ahbass2500]

With no Octabvre, I just rage bought an Ampeg PF50T... this may be a better outcome than getting an Octabvre.