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41-44 AWG: Who cares?

Surely you can't be implying that Leo had it wrong when he chose 42...and 60+ years later they're still using it.

No, of course not. Back then, Leo probably went to the same surplus shop as I did, and found a nice roll of #42 wire. It was cheap, because nobody used that size for anything, you know, useful. He took it back to the shop, messed around with it, and worked out a recipe for a pickup that sounded good with his funny new guitar. He set up the production line to build that recipe of pickups by the millions, and they still build them about the same way today. It's a known recipe that works for that guitar.

The silly old wives tale part is believing that because Leo and Fender use #42 wire, therefore you must use #42 wire to make any pickup sound good. That the #42 wire is the magic ingredient that makes that beautiful sound. That's stupid, and I'm sure that Leo would agree. He could have used another wire size, and a little different recipe, and arrived at the same product. My guess is that he chose that size for practical reasons of mass production. He was trying to minimize the pounds of copper per pickup, to keep the cost low, while not making the wire too fragile to work with on the assembly line. #42 was a good compromise. So he made it work. Leo was an engineer.
 
I hope this question does not through the thread off center and apologize in case it does...

Is there an average as to how many windings one will usually find on a '51 style P bass pickup and how thick the wire usually is?
I'd be interested to find out!
Thanks! :)
 
I hope this question does not through the thread off center and apologize in case it does...

Is there an average as to how many windings one will usually find on a '51 style P bass pickup and how thick the wire usually is?
I'd be interested to find out!
Thanks! :)

They can vary from around 6.9k -7.1k of 42 (PE, I think), don't know the turn count. The earlier ones had .2" magnets, and later changed to 3/16" (.188").

I personally like 7.7k of 42. The original scpb pickups are too bright for my liking.
 
No, of course not. Back then, Leo probably went to the same surplus shop as I did, and found a nice roll of #42 wire. It was cheap, because nobody used that size for anything, you know, useful. He took it back to the shop, messed around with it, and worked out a recipe for a pickup that sounded good with his funny new guitar. He set up the production line to build that recipe of pickups by the millions, and they still build them about the same way today. It's a known recipe that works for that guitar.

The silly old wives tale part is believing that because Leo and Fender use #42 wire, therefore you must use #42 wire to make any pickup sound good. That the #42 wire is the magic ingredient that makes that beautiful sound. That's stupid, and I'm sure that Leo would agree. He could have used another wire size, and a little different recipe, and arrived at the same product. My guess is that he chose that size for practical reasons of mass production. He was trying to minimize the pounds of copper per pickup, to keep the cost low, while not making the wire too fragile to work with on the assembly line. #42 was a good compromise. So he made it work. Leo was an engineer.

That answer is a lot of hypothetical guestimation. Leo took great pains to find what worked, as well as how to do it cheaply. He consulted with musicians and valued what they had to say. To suggest that he used 42 mainly because it was cheap is ridiculous. He aslo used 43 on some pickups early on.

Back to the question, who else uses 41?

Look at all the different pickups Duncan makes...how many use 41?

DiMarzio? Fralin? Lollar?
 
That answer is a lot of hypothetical guestimation. Leo took great pains to find what worked, as well as how to do it cheaply. He consulted with musicians and valued what they had to say. To suggest that he used 42 mainly because it was cheap is ridiculous. He aslo used 43 on some pickups early on.

Back to the question, who else uses 41?

Look at all the different pickups Duncan makes...how many use 41?

DiMarzio? Fralin? Lollar?

smaller wire gets more turns in the same area. This means you can get more turns next to the magnet and the strongest part of the magnetic field and those are the turns that produce the most output. If you're making lots of pickups as a business then, smaller wire cut's down the build time and materials cost of your coils. Consider the Squier P pickup (which I think I measured one at 6.5k but I could be wrong) it's wound a lot lower than vintage and then they slap a couple 10 cent ceramic magnets on some steel poles to get some of the output back. Lends a bit of a brittle tone but it's cheap to make and frankly, sounds pretty good given it's made as cheaply as possible.
 
[QUOTE="Q";14822856]smaller wire gets more turns in the same area. This means you can get more turns next to the magnet and the strongest part of the magnetic field and those are the turns that produce the most output. If you're making lots of pickups as a business then, smaller wire cut's down the build time and materials cost of your coils. Consider the Squier P pickup (which I think I measured one at 6.5k but I could be wrong) it's wound a lot lower than vintage and then they slap a couple ceramic 10 cent ceramic magnets on some steel poles to get some of the output back. Lends a bit of a brittle tone but it's cheap to make and frankly, sounds pretty good given it's made as cheaply as possible.[/QUOTE]

And what does any of that have to do with 41?

41 is larger than 42, btw.
 
And what does any of that have to do with 41?

41 is larger than 42, btw.

Because, if you have a target output then the cheapest way to get to that output is to put the as many turns in the strongest part of the magnetic field that you can.

Larger wire requires larger coils and more winding time. And the more turns you add the further away those turns get from the magnetic field so they're producing less output.

Best to forget about DCR for the most part. Turns make output. if you don't believe that try making a coil with 5 turns of 12 gauge. almost no DCR but no output either.
 
I hope this question does not through the thread off center and apologize in case it does...

Is there an average as to how many windings one will usually find on a '51 style P bass pickup and how thick the wire usually is?
I'd be interested to find out!
Thanks! :)

All these vintage style pickups (Tele bridge, Strat, P-basses, Jazz, P90s, PAF-class humbuckers) are using awg42. The only exception is the Tele neck pickup which is awg43. Your 51 pickup, if vintage style, is awg42.

awg42 coils of normal length have about 8000 winds.

If your 51 has a quarter pounder pickup that would be awg43 and more winds.
 
Well, I sure tried to.

You did.

What I understand from this thread is that it is more art than science. The science is basic but the magic to get the sound you seek is the hard part. It is more of a dance of materials - with the performance of each part inextricably tied to the others. The is no "one thing" - because that one thing behaves like a totally different thing depending on its partners and deployment.

So the answer to the OP is - stop worrying about the wire gauge! You can only go by sound. And that is that.