4X10 and 1X15 a bad combo... but why?

[walterw]

When I use the combination of cabs, I'm not cranking my amp much more (or any more) than I would as a singular rig, but to my ears the additional cab has a discernible volume and frequency difference that is appealing.

sure, and if that's the gear you've got then that's perfectly sensible, because...

It is a proven fact that two cabinets, even mismatched ones, sound fuller on the stage.

we all agree that two cabs are usually better than one; the point of the no-mixing argument is just that matched cabs are usually better still than the mixed cabs. (that is, if the matched cabs are themselves cabs you like! a pair of something that sucks may not beat something good on top of something else good.)

 

[Groovy_Gravy]

Why do we keep having to rehash this subject? Anyone just has to use the brain that God gave them to see the obvious truth. If the pairing worked properly there would be no threads about blown fifteen inch drivers. Instead there are a plethora of them.

Take a look at the individual cabinets published power ratings. Should be on the back panel. Often you see a 500W 4x10 and a 200W 1x15. Pushed with a 500W amp, each cabinet will be sent up to 250W. So the 4x10 is running at half of it's ability while the 1x15 is over it's maximum. It really is as simple as that.

Not when your amp is 100w

 

[Stevorebob]

I ran 410 or 210 + 115 for 25+ years. Thought this sounded great. I switched to matched cabs about a year ago, and all of a sudden, I encountered no more "bad rooms." All those years, and the "bad rooms" were my mismatched cabs. My experience. YMMV.

 

[Dennis Smith]

I'm pretty thankful for this thread.... I have a Hartke Kilo and a AK410 cab and a (borrowed) EV 115 pa cab .... I run them bridged with the EV cab daisy chained from the AK410. Sounds pretty good... but, I always felt the EV cab was a bit louder.
I decided to buy a 2nd cab and was confused whether to get a AK115 or a another AK410. After reading this thread, I'm going to order a second AK410..... thanks guys

 

[RickyT]

I used to play with a 410 & 115 which I thought sounded ok, was never really impressed with the sound or volume.

After blowing out the cone once the guy repairing it explained about phasing and power issues using different sized cabs, I thought "nah I'll be alright"....2 months later blew the accordion part around the speaker out. Went back to have it repaired and the guy just laughed at me. He told me to get another 410.

One night I borrowed another 410 and I knew immediately what I had to do. Ditch the 115! Saved my dollars and bought an Ampeg Classic 810, best move I ever made (although my back may disagree)

 

[ThisBass]

After blowing out the cone once the guy repairing it explained about phasing and power issues using different sized cabs, I thought "nah I'll be alright"....2 months later blew the accordion part around the speaker out. Went back to have it repaired and the guy just laughed at me. He told me to get another 410.

A HPF protects any speaker/cab from overloading drivers with too much of sub/low harmonic content.
Although 15" loaded cab tend to be lower tuned than 10" loaded cabs thus there is similar mechanical power handling each, some cab designs (especially the smallish ones) have considerable high tuning so mechanical handling is "relatively" decreased.

Either way, I'd check the excursion of the drivers loaded in the 410 anyway. Excessive driver excursion affects livespan anyhow.

 

[Uncle Snake]

...... A single 15" driver cannot keep up with a 4x10 in any regard and as such is the wrong tool for the job.

Seriously? This may be the most inaccurate thing I have ever read on Talkbass. And that is saying something.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Seriously? This may be the most inaccurate thing I have ever read on Talkbass. And that is saying something.

You are welcome to disprove it by posting sensitivity, and total displacement numbers

 

[ThisBass]

You are welcome to disprove it by posting sensitivity, and total displacement numbers

That's likely difficult to predict because max SPL varies with different tuning of a cab.

15" loaded cabs tend to be more solid on sub harmonic content due to tendentially lowered cab tuning with 15" drivers.
Thus those "single" 115 cabs may cope with a 410 regarding mechanical power handling.
But, as it all depends, there is no way to make generalisations.

 

[Uncle Snake]

You are welcome to disprove it by posting sensitivity, and total displacement numbers

My problem here is people posting in absolutes. Mixed drivers work great in a properly crossed over system. Just because some(most) people don't do it this way does not mean that it sucks.

Not exactly what you're asking for but having used both of the offerings below in my opinion the Ampeg suffered miserably. All my opinion of course.

Ampeg B-410HE 200w 4x10" Bass Cabinet Vs [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[BassmanPaul]

Seriously? This may be the most inaccurate thing I have ever read on Talkbass. And that is saying something.

What I stated is accurate. Using standard production cabinetry, which most would be using, pairing a 15 with with four tens will eventually lead to the demise of the 15.

 

[BassmanPaul]

My problem here is people posting in absolutes. Mixed drivers work great in a properly crossed over system.

It appears to me that you are the one talking absolutes here. No one is talking about a properly crossed over system. We are talking about stacking a 1x15 under a 4x10.

 

[ThisBass]

IME there is a very wide variety of standard cabs available. Because of there is no generalisation or rule of thumb on this topic it depends on every particular case if a 115 is actually overpowered.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

My problem here is people posting in absolutes. Mixed drivers work great in a properly crossed over system. Just because some(most) people don't do it this way does not mean that it sucks.

Not exactly what you're asking for but having used both of the offerings below in my opinion the Ampeg suffered miserably. All my opinion of course.

Ampeg B-410HE 200w 4x10" Bass Cabinet Vs [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

First off, almost no one makes a COMMERCIALLY available cab that uses the 3015lf.

Secondly, if using a properly crossed over system would mean that you are NOT using a 4X10 with a 1X15 because you would only need a decent 6" mid driver. If you want to carry around a heavy 4X10 to do the work of one 6", more power to you.

 

[Uncle Snake]

shaging histerical.....

 

[Bass_Pounder]

****ing histerical.....

Yes, your thoughts on this are

 

[BassmanPaul]

****ing histerical.....

Just for the record you spelled hysterical incorrectly!

Look bro I'm not making this up. Do yourself a favour and do a search on the pairing. There really is a plethora of posts bemoaning the failure of a 15 mated with a 4x10.

 

[ThisBass]

@Uncle Snake
there are many posts regarding failures with 115 and 410 pairing. I'm always missing the way how the cabs are stacked. In engineering mindset I can't proove either one thing or the other as long as I'm missing sufficiant backround.

 

[walterw]

Not exactly what you're asking for but having used both of the offerings below in my opinion the Ampeg suffered miserably. All my opinion of course.

Ampeg B-410HE 200w 4x10" Bass Cabinet Vs [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

comparing a cheap 200w 4x10 cab that ampeg doesn't even bother to sell anymore to a dedicated subwoofer cab made with one of the best modern high-excursion 15s out there, the result is not surprising, the 15 probably does "move more air".

 

[Bastardbass]

ive been running this setup for years 1x15 and 4x10 with a Tweeter not sure about the tweeter size 4/6 inch . The amp are rated differently ,ones a 2 and the other is 4ohms but I have had no issues the sound is extremely full and fat it fills the room. I have had no need to upgrade owned them since 2006 . If I had a choice to change anything about them id recommend a 1x18 and the 4x10 without a tweeter that would be perfection! For me at least and my needs, my band plays like a heavy rock blues style best way to describe it is mix Jimi Hendrix korn and rage against the machine, dark heavy blues the amp keeps up with the variety of demands I ask for it to produce. I run a alot of different pedals through it as well and I push it pretty hard sometimes I’m surprised I have never blow a speaker out or just fried the whole thing

I never really used more than 6 pedals at once of course, I have 4 always on pedal and then mix 2 effects depending on the song feel n style but I have alot of options as u can see I have been slowly accumulating pedals for many years now . That amp handles them all and brings them to life in all their glory. This is a old amp I am really impressed with new modern amps now day they have come along alot with better technology and tighter sound quality, not enough to tempt me to buy a new one just yet but all u players with modern amp have it pretty good let me tell you that u are you blessed n just do know it. Everyone has their own needs a taste my setup might seem like trash to you but it’s a beautiful sexy trash pile for me I love it buuutttt I would cheat on it in a second for 1x18 4x10 no tweeter without hesitation . Keep playing u sob out there keep pushing the bass to the next level!