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4x10 and 4x12
- Thread starter themickster
- Start date
JeezyMcNuggles
Inactive
- Feb 23, 2018
- 14,723
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- I suck, but nobody really notices
It's 810s for bass. An 810 is a bass half stack. So is 215s.
The 410 thing didn't happen for another decade or so
It's probably not a "guitar" cab. Hiwatt designed some universal amps and cabs for guitar, bass, PA etc.. I still think the DR103 (and it's higher-watt brethren) are some of the greatest bass heads ever made...
My guess (and it is just that: a guess), is that in the '60's the popular guitar amp of the time was a Fender Twin Reverb, which featured two 12" speakers. Adding a 2x12 extension cab to that would double it to four 12's. Some manufacturers decided to make a 4x12 cab and add a piggyback head (like the Fender Showman setup). For bass, the fridge was the go-to rig for large venue use. That was loaded with eight 10" speakers. For small to medium sized venues, cutting this in half (to make an apartment sized fridge) seemed easy and logical rather than reinventing the whole package. This would make two 4x10's equal (in theory) to one fridge, only a whole lot easier to lug up a narrow flight of stairs. Before launching the missiles, please remember this is only a guess on my part, factoring in the corporate mindset of the period, the practicality of each item, the market for them, the ability to use existing inventory to produce new products, and the time frame to either be first or catch up to the competition quickly. Some of the products introduced during that time seemed perfectly logical and yet by today's standards seem lame. For instance, the stand-alone Fender spring reverb tank. Who would shell out cash for that? Back in the '60's, any surf music player who owned a Showman amp (which had no reverb) would. Cheaper to buy a part of another pre-existing amp (the aforementioned Twin REVERB) in its own cab than to buy a new amp. Have a great night, everybody.
In the US, the Twin was popular; initially it had no reverb, but that was added to the combo after the outboard unit had been in use for a while(there was an oversized Showman Reverb head briefly in the early 70’s).
In the UK the Vox AC30 ruled as the 2x12 combo, no reverb. After Marshall came up with their version of that configuration, they introduced the 4x12 concept, primarily as a bass cabinet. In 1964, John Entwistle of the Who got one(they had been using a combination of Vox and Fender amps), Pete was not to be outdone, so a cab war of escalation ensued, with Pete ordering an 8x12”, which of course proved impractical. It got cut in half, but the stack idea was born.
The Ampeg SVT did not appear until 1969, and was beta tested by the Rolling Stones on their US comeback tour that year.
I saw an example of one--another one--somewhere online today with both 240 W cabs for sale but now I can't remember where.
Here it is. I wasn't imagining things after all.
Whoever has $6,500 + $500 for shipping from Brooklyn can have all of this.
wintremute
mediocrity at its finest
- Oct 16, 2014
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- Endorsing Artist: Langstrom Carrot Farms
Buddy, do I have some bad news for you.
Break it to me gently. I think I know what it is. I know what it is. It's not as bad as the Guitar and Music Theory group on Facebook that I left at the weekend.
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Most posts in this thread seem to take for granted the claim that Ampeg's SVT head/8x10 cabinet setup has outsold all other bass amps since the beginning of the 1970's. Maybe that's true---it's hard to pin down numbers. Probably is true for pro-level touring bands.
But the vast majority of amp purchasers have mostly been small-time bands, playing in local bars and clubs. You never saw many SVTs being used by those bands.
So what bass amp brand did most of those bands go for in the '70's and '80's? Peavey, of course. (Funny that, from what I saw skimming through all the pages of this thread, this post seems to be the first to mention Peavey.)
In fact, my guess is that the most popular bass amps (in terms of sheer numbers sold over previous decades, anyway) have been Peavey's various combos that used one 15" Peavey Black Widow or Scorpion speaker.
That's not a very confident guess, though. I'd love to see some numbers from people who worked in the industry and have hard data on amp and cabinet sales over the years.
(By the way, on the topic of the box size necessary for a 4 x 12 bass cabinet: my Music Man 412 B cab, which hasn't seen stage use in at least 30 years, measures 27.5" x 27.5" x 17.5". It's cumbersome. I won't attempt to guess its weight.)
I'm referring to what I know of the U.S. band scene, of course. Maybe themickster or one of the other UK posters can tell us which have been the most commonly seen bass combos used by local pub and top 40 bands there.
But the vast majority of amp purchasers have mostly been small-time bands, playing in local bars and clubs. You never saw many SVTs being used by those bands.
So what bass amp brand did most of those bands go for in the '70's and '80's? Peavey, of course. (Funny that, from what I saw skimming through all the pages of this thread, this post seems to be the first to mention Peavey.)
In fact, my guess is that the most popular bass amps (in terms of sheer numbers sold over previous decades, anyway) have been Peavey's various combos that used one 15" Peavey Black Widow or Scorpion speaker.
That's not a very confident guess, though. I'd love to see some numbers from people who worked in the industry and have hard data on amp and cabinet sales over the years.
(By the way, on the topic of the box size necessary for a 4 x 12 bass cabinet: my Music Man 412 B cab, which hasn't seen stage use in at least 30 years, measures 27.5" x 27.5" x 17.5". It's cumbersome. I won't attempt to guess its weight.)
I'm referring to what I know of the U.S. band scene, of course. Maybe themickster or one of the other UK posters can tell us which have been the most commonly seen bass combos used by local pub and top 40 bands there.
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I had a monstrous Marshall 4x12 bass cab for a short while in the early '80s. My strange coincidence is was replaced by a Peavey 1516. Go figure!!
I owned one for a while, sounded OK but not at all what I was expecting, lacked the sort of midrange punch we usually associate with 4-10 cabs. Just goes to show: always use your ears, not your eyes when checking out gear.
4-10 and 2-10 bass combos never went away, Ampeg made a 100 watt solid state model in the 1970s, the B-410. It sounded pretty good. Being solid state, while heavy it’s not as bad as a Bassman Ten. The matching B-115 was the same amp section with a 1-15 (doh).
P.S. In case noone mentioned it, a big reason for multiple speakers from the 50s well into the 70s was power handling. Most bass speakers, whether 10, 12 or 15 only handled 25-50 watts. The 10s in an SVT handled only 30 watts each. Some of the premium speakers like JBLs and Altecs could take 100 watts. Compare that to today when speakers routinely take 200 watts without breaking a sweat.
Coupled with low power amplification until the SVT arrived and the only way to be loud enough was to use as many speakers as possible. I once saw a rock band in a bar where the guitarist used one of those 12 watt solid state Marshall amp heads that came with their JCM 800 micro-stack but used a pair of 4-12 cabs and it was crazy loud.
most common used by pub bands would have been Peavey and carlsboro.
Trace Elliot popularised the 4x 10 IMO
The reason that 4x10 is more common than 4x12 is probably the tone is possibly tighter and brighter than 4 x12.
Bass players seem to like more top end than guitarists eg 4x10 and a horn.
Personally I prefer 4x12 or 2x15.
My bass 4x12 is a 2 man lift.
Main reason you dont see them often for bass is, well.. they suck for "Bassy" bass. (Which is what a lot of bass players are looking for). IME.
In fact, even Marshall's "Bass Cabs" aren't all that Bassy, In my opinion.
T$
Maybe we should get little troll icons under our avatars if we act like a troll, but then some twirp would think it was a badge of honor.
American Muscle: The Ampeg SVT
"After this beta-testing period with the Stones concluded, the SVT went into production, first with the original 6146B power tubes plus an extra delay relay tube (which was quickly omitted, only 50 or so amps made with this), and by mid-'70, switched to the more stable 6550A power tube. Although still technically requiring a pair of cabinets for full power, most were paired with a single 8x10" cabinet designed specifically for bass, remaining a classic partnership for decades. The square-back cabinets featured custom-designed speakers by Bob Gault, originally manufactured by CTS, later by his offshoot Eminence in 1972 (An upcoming speaker post will explain this in greater detail). The combined surface area of eight 10" speakers, along with the faster reaction time of smaller drivers emphasizing the attack and upper harmonics of the tone made the 10s a much better option than larger 15- or 18-inch speaker options."
I wonder why 810 cabs became so popular for the last 55 years.
"After this beta-testing period with the Stones concluded, the SVT went into production, first with the original 6146B power tubes plus an extra delay relay tube (which was quickly omitted, only 50 or so amps made with this), and by mid-'70, switched to the more stable 6550A power tube. Although still technically requiring a pair of cabinets for full power, most were paired with a single 8x10" cabinet designed specifically for bass, remaining a classic partnership for decades. The square-back cabinets featured custom-designed speakers by Bob Gault, originally manufactured by CTS, later by his offshoot Eminence in 1972 (An upcoming speaker post will explain this in greater detail). The combined surface area of eight 10" speakers, along with the faster reaction time of smaller drivers emphasizing the attack and upper harmonics of the tone made the 10s a much better option than larger 15- or 18-inch speaker options."
I wonder why 810 cabs became so popular for the last 55 years.
IMHO the SVT and 810 was (by many) considered the best, rather than the highest selling. This rig has "legendary" status. In all honesty I have rarely seen SVTs in person over the years. But at a certain time they were fairly ubiquitous on stage with A-list touring groups.
First rig I ever bought was a new MTI SVT and 810. I had never heard or even seen one, but everything I read about it made it seem perfect. I wanted the best, so I had a local music shop order one. Turns out most of what I had read was subjective drivel. The 810 in particular is not my sound. It was a cool rig, but I consider buying it a mistake. That does not mean it's not the perfect rig for someone else.
Just for reference Marshall offer a 4x12 and an 8x10 cab “voiced to go with the VBA amp”Main reason you dont see them often for bass is, well.. they suck for "Bassy" bass. (Which is what a lot of bass players are looking for). IME.
In fact, even Marshall's "Bass Cabs" aren't all that Bassy, In my opinion.
T$
AFAIK know they are both sealed cabs.
(I have never tried either of these)
