5 String - Freedom or Handicap?

[Semion N.]

Hello all!

I hope I am not angering any mods by making *yet another* 5 string thread, but I couldn't find the answer I was looking for in the older threads.

As opposed to instrument recommendation, I would like to talk about concept for a moment, and would be glad if both 4-string people and 5-string people reply here.

The first time I played on a 5-string I actually liked was this week - and this is because they're very rare here in the mainstream shops, and non-mainstream shops are kind of far apart so I can't just walk into one on my way to somewhere else. Anyway, while thinking about whether the B sounded good in relation to the other strings, I realized by accident that I could reach two octaves from any note on the B with a span of only 5 frets. This is opposed to 10 frets on a 4-string (from the E). Now, I'm not really technically strong, but most of the stuff I like to play aren't specific songs, but more walking bass or blues kind of jam stuff. This freedom, at a first glance, is a blessing! Two octaves, without super-shifting and mega hand-eye coordination! What kind of amazing things can be done with two octaves? And this is without pushing into the lead guitar's world (which is why I am not talking about 6-strings here).

But then another thought hit me - 4-string players have that ability to super-shift and hand-eye-coordinate. They do it all the time. If I play a 5, I will never have the need to develop this! Sure, if I want 3 octaves I can get it with 17 frets and 5 strings, but why would I? Would this mean playing on easy-mode forever? How will this impact my overall ability?

I am saying this because when I started playing bass (without even trying to play guitar first), I played for a year and a half solely on an Acoustic with Flats. If anyone tried that, you know this requires tremendous physical strength. So the first few months were rough, but then when I finally moved to an electric (due to volume issues) I've had absolutely no problem fretting on any kind of string anywhere on the fretboard.

So does this mean I need to reach a certain "achievement" of skill in order to feel safe moving to a 5? Like playing a two-octave span of any kind of chord anywhere, fast and with all types of fingerings, without thinking about it, etc? Or should I put the technical difficulty aside and focus on the music?

What do you guys think? Of this idea in general and my dilemma in particular.

 

[Remyd]

One of the best things about the BG as compared to the DB is access to the neck. You can reach all the frets all the time. I don't see where your musical development would be hurt by doing that.

 

[bassbenj]

There is no "dilemma". 4 string basses and 5-6 string basses are essentially two different instruments played in different ways. Yes, they are both basses and can often imitate each other (Well a 5 can imitate a 4 but not the other way), but they are not the same thing.

Put the question this way. If a person learns to play the saxophone, then they take the easy route and never learn to play the clarinet, right? Of course one could start by learning the clarinet first to make sure you were forced to learn the "hard" fingering and develop it, right? Why are there clarinets at all when playing a saxophone is just like "coming home"? Look. The deal is there are saxophones and there are clarinets. Some people only play one of those. Some people are equally skilled on both. It just depends on what the person is interested in learning to play.

So quit chasing your own tail and ask yourself which instrument is the one you want to learn NOW! And then do it. You can always learn another instrument later, even a bass with a different number of strings. Taking a close look at the music that interests you is good way to decide which instrument you want to learn to play

 

[Robroy]

There is no "dilemma". 4 string basses and 5-6 string basses are essentially two different instruments played in different ways. Yes, they are both basses and can often imitate each other (Well a 5 can imitate a 4 but not the other way), but they are not the same thing.

Put the question this way. If a person learns to play the saxophone, then they take the easy route and never learn to play the clarinet, right? Of course one could start by learning the clarinet first to make sure you were forced to learn the "hard" fingering and develop it, right? Why are there clarinets at all when playing a saxophone is just like "coming home"? Look. The deal is there are saxophones and there are clarinets. Some people only play one of those. Some people are equally skilled on both. It just depends on what the person is interested in learning to play.

So quit chasing your own tail and ask yourself which instrument is the one you want to learn NOW! And then do it. You can always learn another instrument later, even a bass with a different number of strings. Taking a close look at the music that interests you is good way to decide which instrument you want to learn to play

This is pretty funny. I was reading your first paragraph and I said to myself, "He's right! 4 string and 5 string are kinda like clarinet and sax!" And then I continued reading...

 

[Semion N.]

One of the best things about the BG as compared to the DB is access to the neck. You can reach all the frets all the time. I don't see where your musical development would be hurt by doing that.

Yes, but if I don't need to shift as much, I would theoretically never learn to, is what I'm saying. Though I'm not sure I fully understand your answer.

There is no "dilemma". 4 string basses and 5-6 string basses are essentially two different instruments played in different ways. Yes, they are both basses and can often imitate each other (Well a 5 can imitate a 4 but not the other way), but they are not the same thing.

Put the question this way. If a person learns to play the saxophone, then they take the easy route and never learn to play the clarinet, right? Of course one could start by learning the clarinet first to make sure you were forced to learn the "hard" fingering and develop it, right? Why are there clarinets at all when playing a saxophone is just like "coming home"? Look. The deal is there are saxophones and there are clarinets. Some people only play one of those. Some people are equally skilled on both. It just depends on what the person is interested in learning to play.

So quit chasing your own tail and ask yourself which instrument is the one you want to learn NOW! And then do it. You can always learn another instrument later, even a bass with a different number of strings. Taking a close look at the music that interests you is good way to decide which instrument you want to learn to play

Funny you should mention clarinets. I was a woodwind player once, and the last thing I did in that respect was realize that I like the Bass clarinet more than the saxophone (which was my main tool up until then). Yeah, it has harder fingerings and takes alot more strength, but bro, 4 octaves instead of 2! FOUR OCTAVES MAN!

...Am I crazy?

P.S. I had to completely relearn playing the clarinet. Sax experience did very little for me. There's no way it's the same with a 5-string.

 

[Robroy]

I started on the 5. I then remember grabbing a 4 string bass at a Howl at the Moon and proceeded to play Summer of '69" with the piano players. This is a song I'd played before on the fiver.

So everything is fine, and then we get to the bridge. I reach for the F on the B string and, SOMEONE STOLE MY STRING!. I was lost for a few bars.

It got me to pick up the four. I now have six basses two are fivers, one is a 6 (for noodling around) and the other three are four. I've gone through phases where I just play the four and realize I'm losing my fiver sensibilities, so I go back to the fiver for a while.

I now just play whichever is tickles my fancy. And I much prefer Summer of '69 on the fiver now because I'm the lead singer (and we drop it a full step), so it goes down to low C.

That being said, I'm so comfortable with the four string neck that it now feels MUCH easier to play, especially for classic rock. I used to love the fretted E, but now that fifth string just seems to get in the way. In my current band, the ONLY song that requires the fiver is Summer of '69. I'll play the fiver on that set, and one of the fours on the rest.

But to re-iterate, the four seems almost toy-like in simplicity and ease compared to the fiver now. I get in a groove on that thing and the hard part is not being too busy. The whole neck is my playground.

 

[Mekana]

I get what you're saying. Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating a little when the B string on the 5 makes certain things so much easier.

If I had to choose only one bass to play for the rest of my days, I would choose a 5. You can play it like a 4 or a 5. (FWIW, I do sometimes choose to play a note that would be easier to reach on the B string elsewhere on the neck just for that slight tonal difference. Usually this is not necessary, though, for what I do.)

Another advantage to a 5 is not having to down tune to get those lower notes.

That said, I have both 4's and 5's and play both. It's easier to switch back and forth now than it was at first. I still have a ways to go to become totally comfortable with it. Sometimes down tuning that E to drop D is a better option for the song, anyway.

Another advantage of a 4 is easier slapping. It can be done on both, just easier (for me) on 4.

No, I don't think a person is necessarily better served by mastering 4 strings before playing 5. But if you want to be comfortable playing both, practice on both. (Or pretend your B string isn't there on your 5 occasionally.) It actually has helped me learn my fretboard a bit better, because I'm getting better at visualizing the different areas where the same note can be played, as I switch back and forth.

 

[mech]

.....I realized by accident that I could reach two octaves from any note on the B with a span of only 5 frets.......

This is the whole key to the 5 string for me. Playing across the neck instead of up and down. You'll also learn that doing left hand stops on notes in some keys, rather than right, will be a lot easier when they are played in the middle of the neck instead of against the topnut or open. Much easier and sounds better. I hate playing 4 string in keys that have to be played against the topnut. So much so that all my 4 strings, with two exceptions, are strung BEAD. Also horn keys....F, Bb, Eb,etc...are a lot easier and sound better. Extra low notes are nice for ending songs where it fits. Low B at the end of "Comfortably Numb" is awesome.

....if you want to be comfortable playing both, practice on both.

This is too true if you want to keep your chops on both. Also helps when you get a chance to sit in.

 

[StuartV]

My dad used to tell me "that's just mental masturbation".

4, 5, and 6 string basses are not different instruments. That's just silly. There is nothing to stop you from picking up a 6 and never using the B or C strings and playing everything exactly the same as you would on a 4 - and sounding exactly the same, too.

More strings is more freedom AND a handicap. It's up to you as the player. You can CHOOSE to take advantage of a 5 or 6 to do things that you would not be able to do on a 4. You can choose to do that as a way to avoid developing skills that would allow you to do it on a 4 and it's being a handicap. You can choose to do that as a way to accomplish things that you will simply never be able to do on a 4. Or to do things you can't do YET on a 4 string.

It's up to you whether you choose to use it as a crutch or an enhancement. Compared to Jaco, I am a one-legged man racing against Usain Bolt. Jaco didn't need more than 4 strings because he was that good. I'm not. More strings lets me do some things with basic proficiency that I can't do (with proficiency) on 4 strings. It gives me freedom BY BEING my crutch. That's what crutches do. They give freedom to the handicapped (and my playing is DEFINITELY handicapped!). I take advantage. I get more enjoyment out of my playing. And when I practice, I work on improving the skills that would let me do the same things on a 4 string.

If you let a crutch stop you from developing yourself, that's on you, not the number of strings on your bass.

 

[StuartV]

ps. This is exactly why I switched to playing a 6-string last summer. It is letting me play music (in a community Big Band jazz ensemble) that I could not play nearly as well on a 4 or 5. Though I could probably do just as well with a 5 strung E-C. The big band stuff doesn't really need those really low notes. But, I hope someday to have improved my skills and be able to play the same music on a 4, but it ain't happenin' yet!

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I think that they are not an handicap nor a freedom.

They are basses, basses with some extension and offer some position. This is it. It doesn't play different, it isn't like playing another instrument. it is still a bass, that work like a bass, sound like a bass and play like a bass.

I did play one for many years before I took a 6 strings. I still play like I did before, it just extend nothing more nothing less. To me it is more like going from a 61 to a 78 or even a 88 keys on a piano. It is still a piano, play like a piano, sound like one ...

I think people who can't adapt or feel like they need to change everything on a 5 or 6 strings just have a very crappy technic to begin with.

 

[40Hz]

I play both and AFAIC they're each just another bass.

I don't really get what the big conceptual hurdle is. There are songs and there are bass notes to play for them. Whether you do it on a 4-string, a 5-string, a 6-string, a Chapman Stick, an upright, on a fretted or unfretted neck, using rounds or flats of tapewounds is just details and bookkeeping. Some instruments may be better suited for the function and role of the bass part in a particular context than others. But at the end of the day, the bass is what it is. And all that matters is the music itself. Not how hard or easy it is to play - or on what instrument. Or so it seems to me.

As Coco Chanel allegedly said: "Don't bore me with the details darling. Just bring it to me."

 

[Matthew_84]

I'm saving up for a 5 string for one reason only, to have a B string AND a G string on the same bass. I want both and a 4 string tuned to BEAD won't cut it.

I'm also of the belief that just because you can cross strings to hit the next note without shifting down the neck doesn't mean you should. There's a big difference in tone between the B and G strings. I don't mind staying in one position to play on three consecutive strings, but if I need any lower or higher notes than that, then I'd rather shift my position.

 

[bassplayer2014]

They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I toggle back and forth between 4 & 5 string basses.

 

[5alive]

I would play 5 string exclusive.. but its just that I haven't played a 5er that is comfortable. I feel wayy more loose and free on a 4 string.

 

[hondo4life]

Whoa, too deep. I never thought much about it. It's just another string that I use sometimes.

 

[George Himmel]

Funny you should mention clarinets. I was a woodwind player once, and the last thing I did in that respect was realize that I like the Bass clarinet more than the saxophone (which was my main tool up until then). Yeah, it has harder fingerings and takes alot more strength, but bro, 4 octaves instead of 2! FOUR OCTAVES MAN!
P.S. I had to completely relearn playing the clarinet. Sax experience did very little for me. There's no way it's the same with a 5-string.

Don't make that argument about four octaves to Lenny Pickett...

Full disclosure: I'm a sax player who was left cold by clarinet
...also a 5-string player from the day I learned...

 

[Blues Bass 2]

I picked up a 5 string with the thought that I wouldn't have to downtune the E string for some songs we were playing . After playing them for a few years it was hard to pick up a 4 string and play the same tunes , I could do it but it took some extra thinking and substituting different positions . Since then I've had a few 4 strings and every time I end up selling them , I'm just too lazy to try and work them in to our tunes .

The reason is the very thing you stumbled onto . Playing at one position across the neck frees a player up from jumping all over the neck . I played that way for 20 years and made good money and had a great time playing but since I started playing 5 strings about 15 years ago I just don't want to go back to the 4 string . Like I said before I'm just too lazy .

I don't think playing a four five or six is limiting in any way really , players do great things on all of them . The limitation is always the player despite what instrument it is .

 

[kkaarrll]

I like to look at it as both?

Sometimes I like using the b string to make it easier, sometimes it just seems superfluous to my needs. Overall, it is more of a positive than a negative, so what the heck, rather have it and not need it than the other way around.

 

[bassbenj]

Yes, but if I don't need to shift as much, I would theoretically never learn to, is what I'm saying. Though I'm not sure I fully understand your answer.

Funny you should mention clarinets. I was a woodwind player once, and the last thing I did in that respect was realize that I like the Bass clarinet more than the saxophone (which was my main tool up until then). Yeah, it has harder fingerings and takes alot more strength, but bro, 4 octaves instead of 2! FOUR OCTAVES MAN!

...Am I crazy?

P.S. I had to completely relearn playing the clarinet. Sax experience did very little for me. There's no way it's the same with a 5-string.

Why did it do little for you if half the fingerings are the same? Just like there are 4 strings right in the middle of every 6 string bass. But it's not just a 4 string with a few extra notes. There are extra things to deal with like wider neck, string damping, cross-neck scales and a different approach to what the bass is doing. Playing a 6 string bass really forces the issue as to what a 5 string is really all about. I think many people try a 5 string and try to play it like a 4 string, have problems and then just give up on it.