5 string theory and practice

[Ric5]

hey,
before you ask I read almost ALL of the going from 4 to 5 string sticky. Although it was nice to hear peoples experience doing just that it did not really help me with any of the technique involved.

any of you seasoned vets have any exercises or other helpful info on making the switch over and to how to incorporate it into my playing.

Thanks in advance

This is really simple ...



step one - only play five string basses until they feel natural to you ...

 

[40Hz]

It's just simple math and positions. You've got an extra 5 notes to work with, but the relationships remain the same since a fiver is usually tuned in ascending 4ths. If you're comfortable transposing on the fly, the extra string is like a gift. In my case, I finally got that low D I wanted so badly without needing to drop tune. It made things sooooooo much easier.

Play a fiver for a week and you'l be home free. It's a very natural transition from 4-string. Your fingers already know where to go. Don't over-analyze it. Just play it.

 

[And I]

For me the floating right thumb technique was the key to unlocking the 5 string for real. Eliminates the reach problem on the D and G strings, allows me to relax the hand to both pluck faster and with more consistency, and takes care of the ringing open strings.

Floating Thumb Technique

 

[Marc valero]

If you have been playing a 4 string for awhile all you need to know is the 1st fret is a C, 3rd fret is a D and 5th fret is an E etc. Use your knowledge and imagination!

 

[jasonmatthews]

One other thing I'd point out about the low B string is that the tonal quality of a note at or above the fifth fret may be different or not as "clean" or "pure" as the same exact pitch played on a higher string and lower fret. There is no hard and fast rule for all basses, though. So by all means use the scale exercises and learn the notes as people have suggested, but also discover through experimentation when the sound of the note on the B string is sonically acceptable in the context of what you are playing, and when you are better off playing that note on the E or A string.

Exactly this. A bunch of people always talk about "never having to shift" and what not, but I've very, very rarely used the B string as a tool to reduce shifting. Every string sounds different, so you play the note where it sounds how you need it to sound, and generally speaking the B string is the worst place to get good tone. If you need a really wobbly, muddy, indistinct E₂, then sure play it up on the 17th fret on the low B, but usually you'll choose just about any other place on the neck to get a better sound.

Obviously YMMV, but in my experience the B strings on most basses are good for about 5 frets; after that I usually try to avoid it. It's there when I need the low notes or to make a really fast run easier somewhere, but in 999/1000 cases I'll shift away just to be able to avoid the low B.

The same applies at the other end with a high C. The first several frets never quite give me the correct sound so I'm usually avoiding them if I can help it; I'll shift up to use the G in most cases because that tone is usually nicer to my ears. Again, just my preference; I'm sure lots of folks use both Bs and Cs all over the neck and find them perfectly acceptable.

Of course, everything I just said goes in the bin when I'm running through scales. With scale/arpeggio exercises I use every string all up and down the neck... because that's how you practice those types of things. But I digress.

 

[franklindayala]

hey,
before you ask I read almost ALL of the going from 4 to 5 string sticky. Although it was nice to hear peoples experience doing just that it did not really help me with any of the technique involved.

any of you seasoned vets have any exercises or other helpful info on making the switch over and to how to incorporate it into my playing.

Thanks in advance

Floating thumb to mute the B string

 

[40Hz]

For me the floating right thumb technique was the key to unlocking the 5 string for real. Eliminates the reach problem on the D and G strings, allows me to relax the hand to both pluck faster and with more consistency, and takes care of the ringing open strings.

Floating Thumb Technique

Excellent advice!

Unless you have large hands or a narrow neck width, floating thumb is the only comfortable way to do it. And muting is extremely important on a fiver. Especially since they tend to be zingy basses with active electronics plus a longer scale length. You get sustain for days with most 5-string basses.

 

[drewphishesp]

I play w a pick alot but will test this out

 

[Element Zero]

I started on 4 strings myself. Then after 4 years I bought my first 5 string played it fairly exclusively for the last 19 years. The only advice I could really give you is to just play. Spend time just getting used to the B string being there even if you aren't really using it. Then spend time and become comfortable with where the notes on up and down the string. Try learning a song that primarily uses quarter or eighth note patterns that aren't too complicated. Then try using the B string for some of those riding quarter or eighth notes that you would normally use the E string for.

All in all, just play and have fun.

 

[TheLowDown33]

My story is: started on 4, moved to 6 and found my home on a 5 string.

Learn the B string just like you did the other 4, one note per fret, one fret at a time. For a while the B was just kind of a thumb rest while I played the rest of the strings like a normal 4. Not sure about your music theory background, but 5 string just allows more freedom over where you apply scales/modes/arpeggios. Just extend the patterns and scales. Also get a feel for the tone of the string. Notes are a lot less defined as you move up the string. That can be good or bad, depending on application.

 

[Joebone]

Big ++ for floating thumb. As a right-hand spazz (left-handed player), it's been critical for my dealing with muting across all 5 strings.

Otherwise, I'd argue that the B-string is a killer tool for playing notes you'd otherwise execute on a 4-stringed E, but want a fatter timbre. I make a lot of my choices between strings based on the timbre I want to best support what's going on in the tune. So I'm all for working scales and the cycle of fifths in order to get the range of options under your fingers and into your ears, but less enthusiastic about transfer of box patterns or other patterns, unless you don't care about the changes in timbre, or are willing/able to put in the work on your right-hand touch and placement so as to equalize the timbre as you get into those lower strings.

And, of course, being able to left-hand mute a low E on a B string is a blast - the first time you do a slow, greasy shuffle in E, you'll get what I mean.

And then, of course, those additional low notes.

 

[Charlzm]

hey,
before you ask I read almost ALL of the going from 4 to 5 string sticky. Although it was nice to hear peoples experience doing just that it did not really help me with any of the technique involved.

any of you seasoned vets have any exercises or other helpful info on making the switch over and to how to incorporate it into my playing.

Thanks in advance

I used to go to Musicians Institute in 1989 - 1990. Jeff Berlin was on faculty at that time. He would have "open clinics" where he would basically sit in a small room that could comfortably hold about 4 people, answer any questions anyone might have, and just improv and riff for an hour or two straight.

It was mind-blowing what he would play, seemingly off the top of his head.

In slack-jawed astonishment, I finally blurted out, "How do you just know what to play?"

He said, "Learn every scale in every finger position on the neck. It's that simple."

While he was on a 4 string, his advice is just as good on a 5. Start playing your modes, one a day, starting from 1st position, then shifting up to 3rd or 4th (whatever makes sense), then popping up to the mid-neck, then finishing up around the 12th. Use a metronome. Say the notes as you play them.

In fact, I just started over with B Ionian yesterday and started working with B Dorian today. When I finish all the B modes, I'll move on to C, then C#, etc...

There's no shortcut I have found that works, and believe me, I'm as lazy (or more so) as the next guy.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

It's really not that different. Learn the notes on all the string, and from there on it's just applying the same patterns to achieve the particular sound (scale or mode) you're after. Not rocket science, and hardly different than a 4 string, physically speaking.

Learn to mute, and you'll be fine. Oh, and don't ride the low notes. In most genres, those are best saved for making statements (dynamics). Don't be afraid to use the low notes, just don't live there, unless the particular genre calls for it.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

hey,
before you ask I read almost ALL of the going from 4 to 5 string sticky. Although it was nice to hear peoples experience doing just that it did not really help me with any of the technique involved.

any of you seasoned vets have any exercises or other helpful info on making the switch over and to how to incorporate it into my playing.

Thanks in advance

What helped me was to practice scales in upper registers - Like a G (running through the modes) starting with the 8th fret B string - VII position.

 

[JW56789]

Here's how I did it:

I'd played 4-string for about 10 years when 5's began to become mainstream in the early 80's. For me a 4-string was always missing something, and the fingerings, the shifts to complete a run or interval jump just never sat well with me. I figured a five would allow me to play 2 octaves across a few frets, and the deal was done. Bought a Peavey DynaBass Five (the most soul-less bass I ever owned, and I'm a Peavey fan; USELESS pickups),

Took it on the gigs with my Yamaha BB 4-string. I'd try a few on the five (songs I knew backwards and forwards), the Clam Buffet would begin, and I'd chicken out back to the Yamaha to finish the night.

After about a week of this, I realized I was getting nowhere fast. So I informed the band they would just have to grin and bear it, took only the five, and after a week or two I settled into it. My brain would say 'it's the same four strings just moved down one', and my hands would say, 'oh yeah? then YOU come play this $^^&#$*@ THING !'

So thirty years later, here's what I'd tell you:

- A five is a the hard way just to pick up the extra low notes. IF that's what you need, do yourself a big favor and add one of those de-tuners to you E string !
-As mentioned previously, it's great for playing all those tunes in E-flat or other down-tuned songs: You just move a fret or two, YOU don't have to de-tune, it's just so handy.
-If you're used to thinking in first or second position as you'd learn on violin or upright, a five basically can combine first (around the nut, those open E or A type things) and second position (now you play those same things anchored off E on the B string) where you can spend a lot of time and play most simple things.
-And as also noted above, watch those 'depth charge' low C's and B's, they can drive your amp, and the PA nuts. E-flat and D not so much. You want to use them musically, and skip the 'listen to my new five and all these LOW NOTE-itis).
-If you're one of these aggravating, talented people that can pick up anything and wail, no problem. If you're merely mortal like most of us, you'll have to commit to this: Do NOT go back and forth to your comfort zone on your four and expect to get anywhere. Later when it's all set in your head, THEN you can play fours on occasion without it affecting you.

If you think it will be a useful step for you, just jump in: Believe me, you'll learn to swim before you drown !

 

[Joybass]

I started on a 5, went to a 4, went back to a 5, bought another 4, et cetera. Up to this day I am going back an forth between my 4s and 5s. When I play my 5 I like the low D, the extra positions from the fifth fret up, but then again I don't like those indiscriminate boomy sounds higher up the B string. The notes below the low D are pretty much useless in the band mix, the muting takes more consideration. And the 5s are a bit heavier. When I play my 4s, I rarely miss my 5s. It is primarily a taste and mood thing with me I guess. YMMV.

 

[Nephilymbass]

hey,
before you ask I read almost ALL of the going from 4 to 5 string sticky. Although it was nice to hear peoples experience doing just that it did not really help me with any of the technique involved.

any of you seasoned vets have any exercises or other helpful info on making the switch over and to how to incorporate it into my playing.

Thanks in advance

Play eadg 4 string songs without going below the 5th fret on any string. Helps to learn the fingerboard and different positions.

If you're ever lost on a bass with additional strings just remember the octave relationships. If you can play an octave and know the shape you should be able to quickly know the notes on the low B or high C just by their octave. For example if you know the third fret of the A string is C then you should know the first fret of the b string is C and the 5th fret of the g string is C. Same goes with a high C string. If you know say the 4th fret of the d string is f# then you should realize the 6th fret of the high C string is f# and the second fret of the E string is f#

 

[bassike]

Like others said, play songs you already know, at the beginning it doesent matter if you don't use the Beauty string, just feel confortable arround the neck.
Then start playing when possible the fifth fret, instead of open E.
Then start playing with octaves. Notes you would play on the A, just play them an octave below.
After all this starts to feel better play songs that are tuned below E like rage against the machines, so instead of detuning the bass, just learn the songs in a different position.
Hope this helps

 

[The Nameless]

Exactly this. A bunch of people always talk about "never having to shift" and what not, but I've very, very rarely used the B string as a tool to reduce shifting. Every string sounds different, so you play the note where it sounds how you need it to sound, and generally speaking the B string is the worst place to get good tone. If you need a really wobbly, muddy, indistinct E₂, then sure play it up on the 17th fret on the low B, but usually you'll choose just about any other place on the neck to get a better sound.

Obviously YMMV, but in my experience the B strings on most basses are good for about 5 frets; after that I usually try to avoid it. It's there when I need the low notes or to make a really fast run easier somewhere, but in 999/1000 cases I'll shift away just to be able to avoid the low B.

The same applies at the other end with a high C. The first several frets never quite give me the correct sound so I'm usually avoiding them if I can help it; I'll shift up to use the G in most cases because that tone is usually nicer to my ears. Again, just my preference; I'm sure lots of folks use both Bs and Cs all over the neck and find them perfectly acceptable.

Of course, everything I just said goes in the bin when I'm running through scales. With scale/arpeggio exercises I use every string all up and down the neck... because that's how you practice those types of things. But I digress.

I have to disagree with the myth that B strings don't sound good, don't sustain, don't intonate, don't play well past the 5th fret or so. I've heard a couple folk mention this, and tho when I was younger I had the same frustration because 5s were relatively new, and B strings were new tech, today my B strings sound great all the way up the neck. Any B string. Any bass. Any scale. For a long time I was disappointed with the responses of my B strings. Over the last 30 years or so, things have changed. Part of that was manufacturing. Part is design of pickups, electronics and amps. Part is the player. I had heard great B strings, but I hadn't played one. I'd heard great B strings on a bass like one I owned. But mine wasn't. So I blamed me. And figured out some things. Today, all my basses B strings sound tight, focused and have great sustain. All the way to the last fret. No overtones. No wolf tones. I don't use compression, and no electronic tricks. My basses are 34 scale and today, if a B goes on my bass sounding dull or with odd response, I know it was me and I'd installed the string wrong. So I re install it. Til it works. I've gotten great B string response on basses in every price range, and after so long I think I can say, in my experience, the myth of the floppy B is history. It's a bit of a peeve of mine when guys say they can't play their B up the neck, cuz I know how to fix em, generally. And when those same guys come out and play my lowly Fender wit a great B, they're saying how great my B strings play and respond. It may not "B" everyone's experience, but I don't want a new player discouraged and thinking there's no good B strings. They're all good. IME.

 

[Joybass]

cuz I know how to fix em, generally.

Please educate me. I have had B strings go dull while they were relatively new (E strings too now I think of it). What's the fix?