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5 string vs 4 string

#101
ggunn said:
I've seen one. They weigh about as much as an upright bass.
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Can you believe that I have never seen an upright bass. The closest I ever came was at a pawn shop years ago (where I got my first T40) in the back room behind the counter, the door was open and there was an upright bass sitting there someone had...pawned. I was about 30 feet from it and that has been my only 'live' experience with an upright bass. ^_^ How much do they weigh? My T40 is like 15+ tonsI mean pounds....:p
 
#104
Once you get used to playing a 5-string you just can't switch back... Well, at least I couldn't. :bassist:

Besides the obvious fact that you can go lower on a 5-string, I have also found myself repositioning over the years. For instance, playing a groove in the key of G sounds bigger and fatter on the B-string in 8th fret than it does using the E-string in 3rd fret. Just like you may have found yourself playing C-grooves on the E-string in 8th fret rather than on the A-string in 3rd fret. Both scenarios fit different situations, but it's definitely nice to have the opportunity to choose.

On the other hand, I have just gotten a 6-string that I just can't get quite used to because of the different physical circumstances (I constantly get confused by that high C-string), but I guess that's ust a matter of time and practice (willingness to learn it! - which I just might not have this time...am I getting old :confused:).

Some argue that it' more diffiult to slap on a 5, but that's also just a matter of getting used to the string spacing, IMO.

Finally, if you play fretless, it can be an advantage to go for more strings as you can play more vertically than on a 4-string, which might make it easier to stay in tune (even though Jaco did quite well on a 4-string!).
 
#105
Auriaprottu said:
LOL, the beginner has this to worry about regardless of how many strings his bass has.
I can't imagine telling a beginning pianist to use a 64 or 76-key instrument or a guitarist to use only five of his strings. Not a perfect analogy, I know, but it fits perfectly as a response to those who see the fiver or sixer as "extra" rather than "a bass". It's a bass. Not "another bass", or a "different" bass, or an "extended range" bass. All those terms are used only when we continue to standardize the four-stringer.
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++++1000. Well said. Now, I totally agree with that statement and the piano analogy makes perfect sense to me.

Telling a person that they should start on a 4-string instead of 5 or 6 is just like telling a beginning pianist that he/she should start on 61-keys instead of 76 or 88. Hmmmmmm.
 
#106
jinithith2 said:
it has become an integral part of my playing, and I feel like I'm choking when I want to hit that extra low note
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That's exactly how I feel though I started on 4. I had no idea about 5s or 6s when I first started playing so 4 was the only choice. It worked out fine until I started playing gospel. I really needed those notes below E. I detuned my 4 every which way until I got my first 5-string. I even detuned that a half-step down being that a lot of gospel tunes are in flat keys and that became my standard way of tuning today--Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb.
 
#107
Auriaprottu said:
LOL, the beginner has this to worry about regardless of how many strings his bass has. What that beginner won't have to do later is revisit those same issues (tho minimized to some small degree) somewhere down the road when he does eventually try a fiver. That's what we should be encouraging him to avoid.

I can't imagine telling a beginning pianist to use a 64 or 76-key instrument or a guitarist to use only five of his strings. Not a perfect analogy, I know, but it fits perfectly as a response to those who see the fiver or sixer as "extra" rather than "a bass". It's a bass. Not "another bass", or a "different" bass, or an "extended range" bass. All those terms are used only when we continue to standardize the four-stringer.

I posted this in a thread a while back. It applies here.

From Bass Player's Anthony Jackson Interview, part 1:

My feeling is: Why is four the standard and not six? As the lowest-pitched member of the guitar family, the instrument should have had six strings from the beginning. The only reason it had four was because Leo Fender was thinking in application terms of an upright bass, but he built it along guitar lines because that was his training. The logical conception for the bass guitar encompasses six strings. As regards the issue of "mastering the 4-string" before moving on to the six, consider that inasmuch as there is no point where one can be said to have "mastered" anything, to make this inane suggestion reveals the speakers to be idiots. As long as we remain seekers, never truly achieving our ultimate goals, we may as well start with the full basic blueprint and enjoy the expanded expressive possibilities of the extended range of the instrument. Of course, the undoubtedly famous-name superstars who utter this nonsense probably regard themselves as masters in their own right. So be it. For the rest of us, their attitude reveals them to be jealous, angry, and frustrated. Too damn bad.

Can't say it any better than this.






Both of you already know that nothing is comfortable for a beginner, and few things are more difficult to get an experienced player to do than relive his old mistakes because he started on an instrument that didn't have six (or even five) strings. How many posts has either of you read where someone said they play a four because they "just can't get comfortable" on a fiver or sixer? That kind of thing had to happen earlier because of the way Leo designed the bass. Now it's completely avoidable.



It's. A. Bass.
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I don't know how many people you have taught to play bass, but I have taught quite a few. I personally don't teach beginners to play bass like a guitar.

The truth of the matter is that most people still play bass "guitar" in a way that fills the role of upright bass. As much as I admire Anthony Jackson his logic is a bit flawed when he starts claiming that bass is the lowest member of the guitar family. What tuning does Anthony Jackson use on his six string? Regardless of that what is the "standard" tuning of a 6 string?

It's not about having mastered anything. It's about manageability and having appropriate priorities when learning to play an instrument. Seriously, what point is there having a six string before you can even play 12 bar blues in time? Piano is a completely different subject. I would bet you that no violin teacher would consider allowing a beginner student to learn on viola d'amour before they could play on a 4 string violin, though.
 
#108
Basseroni said:
++++1000. Well said. Now, I totally agree with that statement and the piano analogy makes perfect sense to me.

Telling a person that they should start on a 4-string instead of 5 or 6 is just like telling a beginning pianist that he/she should start on 61-keys instead of 76 or 88. Hmmmmmm.
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The piano analogy is weak. THAT analogy is more like telling a beginner player they should start with a 21 fret neck vice a 24 fret one. Telling a player to start on a 4 stringer is MORE analogous to having an organist start on an organ with 4 sets of keys (manuals) rather than 5.

I guess I'm somewhat of a traditionalist. I believe starting on a 4 is the smart thing to do. But I see nothing wrong with getting a 5er or 6er to try out while you focus on the 4.
 
#109
Seems to me that we all, beginner and pro alike, start with one note. Every last one of us, at the beginning, simply played one note. And it didn't matter where on the neck or on what string. It was simply one note.

My question is that if its only one note at a time, why are four strings any less wrong than 5, 6, 10, 13, or 1?

Do we stop the singer from singing because their voice is naturally too high or too low?

Then why do we chastize the bassist because his instrument has one too many strings, or one too few?

To me, its simply a matter of learning to control whatever notes you have available.
 
#110
superjesus said:
Seems to me that we all, beginner and pro alike, start with one note. Every last one of us, at the beginning, simply played one note. And it didn't matter where on the neck or on what string. It was simply one note.

My question is that if its only one note at a time, why are four strings any less wrong than 5, 6, 10, 13, or 1?

Do we stop the singer from singing because their voice is naturally too high or too low?

Then why do we chastize the bassist because his instrument has one too many strings, or one too few?

To me, its simply a matter of learning to control whatever notes you have available.
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Yes, but the point is that we take manageable steps in whatever musical process we are involved in. Pianists start with middle C and learn close harmony voicings before they learn to use all the notes on their piano. They don't have to worry about any of the notes being generated when they aren't purposely playing them in the way a bass player has to either. When you play piano you depress the key and generate a note. Lift your finger and the note stops. It's that simple for the beginner.

With bass it is a much more complex technical approach just to play a single note. If you had ever seen an absolute beginner try and play something as simple as a major scale you would know what I mean.

It's nice in theory to say, well if they learn 5 strings or 6 strings or whatever from the outset they won't have the preconceptions of what is "right or wrong". The reality is that 5 strings and up is less manageable for a beginner who has really no concept of how to mute, ergonomic and safe technical application or any sense of how to use an extended range.

As a matter of control, control will be achieved much faster when the beginner has fewer things to worry about.
 
#113
dabbler said:
The piano analogy is weak.
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:rolleyes:
That's your opinion and I respectfully disagree. Range is range regardless of how it's dished out. 21 frets, 24 frets or 4-strings, 5-strings, and 6-strings. It does not matter. It just adds extra range and a beginner will still have to work out their technique regardless of which one they start on.

I also stand by my position that in the end it's all a matter of personal preference. As long as the beginner is learning and developing good technique and actually learning the instrument, it really doesn't make a difference. We are all going to have our own opinions about this but in the end, it's up to the beginner.
 
#114
mutedeity said:
As a matter of control, control will be achieved much faster when the beginner has fewer things to worry about.
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Valid point but here's another way of looking at it. The beginner will have to take "manageable steps" regardless of how many strings he/she starts with and control will still have to be developed. Thus, the learning curve for the beginner will not change with the number of strings on the bass.

"To me, its simply a matter of learning to control whatever notes you have available."

++++100000! Exactly
 
#115
Basseroni said:
Valid point but here's another way of looking at it. The beginner will have to take "manageable steps" regardless of how many strings he/she starts with and control will still have to be developed. Thus, the learning curve for the beginner will not change with the number of strings on the bass.

"To me, its simply a matter of learning to control whatever notes you have available."

++++100000! Exactly
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There certainly is no singely right way (and I hope that you didn't take my previous post in a negative way, I simply was giving my opinion). I have never taught any instrument, but I do feel that I would have had a harder time, and progressed more slowly if I had tried to start learning bass with more than 4 strings. Finger strength and hand/string control are more of a challenge the more strings you have and even though I was already playing guitar, I had to increase some of my hand muscles to develop facility on the bass. But just because I couldn't do it right off the bat, certainly doesn't mean there aren't those who could... I would just play it easy/safe in recommending that a new student start with a 4 stringer. :cool:
 
#119
Im a complete beginner and got a 5 string because thats what a coworker had for sale, I got Ibanez sr485 in new condition for 200$ compared to the epiphone 4 strings i was looking at getting for a little more. Im learning on my own from books and online lessons and experimenting with tabs. Almost all of this is written with 4 strings in mind so my B string is mostly a thumbrest. But i do experiment with it Im not too sure i would have had any easier time learing with 4 (although i still really dont know anything) then with 5 and im pretty sure later i would want a 5 so im glad im starting there.
 

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