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575 watt combo not loud enough!

#101
Edward G. said:
575 watts is enough to play nearly any stage in the world. IMHE, bands that insist on playing at the very limits of their equipment usually sound awful, no matter how well they can play their parts. Been there; done that. The aesthetic challenge is to find a balance and synergy between the instruments that works at ALL volumes. Any fool can crank it up all the way.

'But this one goes to 11.'

The idea that a 575-watt amp isn't loud enough for mere mortals is absurd.
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Yeah, but if you read the whole thread, you'd see that he was playing thru a 210 combo which:

(A) - wasn't actually putting out that much wattage w/out an extension cab...

(B) - needed to have more speakers for his particular band situation...

Just saying that "575 watts should be plenty" doesn't quite fit this situation...


- georgestrings
 
#102
georgestrings said:
Yeah, but if you read the whole thread, you'd see that he was playing thru a 210 combo which:

(A) - wasn't actually putting out that much wattage w/out an extension cab...

(B) - needed to have more speakers for his particular band situation...

Just saying that "575 watts should be plenty" doesn't quite fit this situation...


- georgestrings
Click to expand...

Duly noted. The fact is that even if the combo rig is only putting out half of its rated wattage without an extension cab, 280 watts is a lot of wattage, and modern 2x10s are extraordinary in their performance. Something else isn't right here.
 
#103
Ehhh... I disagree. maybe if it was a 280 W all-tube amp, driven hard, into the world's most efficient 210, then you'd have something. But it wasn't. A clean, undistorted, uncompressed 280 W into a cheap-to-average 210 is a clear recipe for "not loud enough" in a rock band mix.
 
#107
bongomania said:
Ehhh... I disagree. maybe if it was a 280 W all-tube amp, driven hard, into the world's most efficient 210, then you'd have something. But it wasn't. A clean, undistorted, uncompressed 280 W into a cheap-to-average 210 is a clear recipe for "not loud enough" in a rock band mix.
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Then there is a distinct possibility that the 'rock band mix' you speak of is louder than it ought to be, because 287.5 watts going into two 10s of any kind (and Ashdown ain't no fly-by-night outfit) is a LOT of sound, even on the low end of the performance envelope. It may not be the most viscerally satisfying speaker configuration, but there is no way it can't be heard unless the guitars are louder than jets taking off.

And that is probably the issue.
 
#108
Edward G. said:
Then there is a distinct possibility that the 'rock band mix' you speak of is louder than it ought to be
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Have you ever been to a "rock and roll" show of the sort that young people commonly attend? Seriously now. The "rock band mix" of which I speak is the ordinary, everyday, average, quotidian rock band mix on any medium-to-large stage, and many small ones as well. Maybe "rock" to you is covers of 50's dance music played at modest volume?
Edward G. said:
...into two 10s of any kind (and Ashdown ain't no fly-by-night outfit)
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The fact that Ashdown has "been around" has exactly zero to do with whether their low-to-mid budget combo amp speaker cab is efficient.

For the record, I am not arguing out of any personal need to argue with you--it's just that nearly everyone in this thread except you agrees on both the problem and the solution.
 
#109
I know what it means to play loud, my friend, and I know equipment. I also know of the ridiculous need for rockers to play too loud. Been there; done that. My point from the beginning is the problem is not likely too little power nor the caliber of the speakers in the combo. I never argued against adding speakers, but that still ain't the root of the problem. If the bass adds speakers, the guitar just buys another amp. It's lack of restraint, my friend.
 
#110
The trouble here is that you have an 8 Ohm 210 and a 4 Ohm stable amp. So you can add another 8 Ohm 210, for a 4 Ohm 410 (I suggest you turn the combo on it's side and stack the cabs vertically, but whatever). If you add an 8 ohm 410, your amp is going to send half the power (280 watts) to the 210's in the combo and half to the 410 cab. So while the 410 is barely breaking a sweat, the 210's in the combo are farting. And if you use a 4 Ohm 410 that drops the amp below 4 Ohms and you risk burning up your amp.

I like 15's (or 18's), but with 10's you need the right 15--one that can handle the lowest low end, almost a subwoofer and a crossover, so the 10's can be more efficient in providing their optimal frequencies. And really, you don't have enough power for that anyway. You'd need a 4 Ohm 15 or 18 to match the 210's in power and output, so you're in the same boat with the 410 cab.

Really 10's are the way to go for you, if you want to keep your combo. So get an Ashdown EVO 210 8 Ohm cab. Or take your combo to an experienced amp repair tech (they can be found at most music stores that do repairs) and have the 210's wired in series, if possible. The amp will see a 16 Ohm load and send 135 watts to the 210's, but you'll have the ability to use a 4 Ohm cab (15, 18 or 410) with the combo for the full 575 watts.

Or sell the combo and get a head and some cabinets.

Or keep the combo, get a DI and a PA.

Good luck!
 
#112
bongomania said:
Ehhh... I disagree. maybe if it was a 280 W all-tube amp, driven hard, into the world's most efficient 210, then you'd have something. But it wasn't. A clean, undistorted, uncompressed 280 W into a cheap-to-average 210 is a clear recipe for "not loud enough" in a rock band mix.
Click to expand...


Agreed 100% - IME, a 210 is simply not enough for *most* rock bands...



- georgestrings
 
#115
Well, I did my follow up with the extension cabinet (Carvin 8ohm 600 watt 1x15") with the Ashdown C210T 500 EVO iii combo.

I was running the combo at 80% of max volume with the tone controls on the bass up and the EQ boosted and it was loud enough for me with drums and two moderately loud guitars. But not by very much. No headroom at all. I'm thinking maybe Ashdown are not powerful for 575 watts. Or, was the 2X10" and 1x15" not enough speakers to fully let the head breath??? It only has jacks for two speaker cabs. Maybe 2 4x10"s for it ? OR, maybe a VB-2.... :eyebrow:
 
#116
dude, if you want big volume, you need big cabs with lots of air displacement. sounds to me like you're trying to make a small rig work like a big one. yeah, i'd say two 410's or an 810 would be better for you.
 

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