'66 dot/bound J tribute

[JIO]

So Mr Bond.., do you favor the bridge pick-up or do you peg the volume knobs for that classic J mid-sweep? Your answer could determine if you live or die...

 

[JIO]

post #207 - August 28th - 2015 : "The build that started this thread is now complete" - screeeeech! ... not so fast Mr Bond!

Well - a bit of resuscitating a zombie thread (over a year since my last post), but as it is my thread I guess that's ok! Pretty exciting reason though... by chance yesterday I saw a '66 J body listed on eBay linked below the auction I was casually checking out. The seller turned out to be fellow tb'r Brian @The Bass Clef and instantly my interest piqued! I read his copy (below) and saw the golden words "The body is also very lightweight at 4lbs 6oz. (which will make for about 8 1/2 lb full bass)" - my Oly white MIM body wasn't especially light and the bass weighs 10lbs. There are heavier basses and it's not like it's a boat anchor, but I love a light bass. I've generally been hesitant considering buying a (stripped/refinished) body claiming to be of a classic year - but seeing that it was being sold by Brian sealed the deal! He is an authority of 60's Fender basses and I have full trust that what he sez' it is - is what it is. Here's his copy from the sale to show you the extent of it's authenticity - all the right stuff. As I've related in the past, I truly believe that vintage instruments/bodies store their past (mojo or whatever you call it) and so I'm really excited to re-hear/play a bass that has become a part of me the last few years sound even better! FTR - once I transfer parts to the '66 body, I will be selling the Oly white MIM body - if you are interested message me. It's in pretty flawless condition and is from 2012 if I remember correctly. All cavities are painted w/carbon paint w/copper-tape bases and ground wires - there's probably a pic on the early pages of this thread. (started almost exactly 4 yrs ago to the day!)

Nice alder Jazz body from 1966. Refinished in "walnut" (aka "mocha', aka "root beer") a long time ago and shows a good amount of wear from use/age. Includes the 3 ground plates in the pickup and control cavities (and the connecting wires). The neck plate (not included) has the ser. # 158XXX which indicates 1966, as well as other dated parts from the bass it came from. The style of the ground wire route under the bridge, the pickup placement ('60s position), and the "ES" stamp which is still present under the pickguard (which was common on bodies only in the year 1966) are all further indicators that this body was made in 1966.

Thankfully the body still has all the original contours (after it was stripped), and the "Fullerton bump" is still present by the neck pocket. I can't find any traces of the original finish, so I don't know what color it used to be. The body has 4 extra screw holes from a 1970s pickguard (with the upper mounted thumbrest) that was installed at one time, but all the holes will be hidden under a pickguard. The body is also very lightweight at 4 lbs. 6 oz. (which will make for about an 8 1/2 lb. full bass). No cracks, no issues.

So once it arrives I'll strip the walnut finish off and get it ready to sent to Pat Wilkins to refinish it in Oly white. For a while now I was thinking of having him make me a light roasted ash body for it to get my beloved J lighter, but having it lighter and be a real '66 body - well, I never considered that being a possibility... until now!

My '66 P-bass has this same ES stamp under the pg

 

[JIO]

As it's turning out, I realized I've been focusing on and around the year 1966 with my basses lately. It started with purchasing my '66 P-bass a number of years ago, building my '66 trib J, followed by getting a '65 Teisco Del Rey ss, then building my Teiscobird from a '65 Del Rey body - and now an authentic '66 J body for my trib J. It's like when Richard Dryfuss is fixating on a "Devils Tower, Wyoming" form/shape in "Close Encounters". Eventually it starts to make sense... (note- edited to correct location of Devils Tower...)

1966 was the year I started playing bass. For a long while, '66 has become my 'go to' year of inspirational importance. Every time I hear that year mentioned/referenced, I make note of it. As far as culture, art, music, literature, (even cars!) - major creative juices flowing then. So it's admittedly nostolgic for me but also a reminder of what occurred that year as far as world history goes. We are living in some crazy-ass times right now - off the charts in some ways. But 1966 was a time of some heavy changes also. Assassinations, cult killings, the war in Vietnam, Tiny Tim... AND great music, innovative/modern classic design, great art, theater, films - all at the same time in history. So my revamped '66 trib J is a cult-bass from inception. Bass = ground - foundation - holding' it down. Grounding it dynamically to '66 with this body (for me) further grounds it (in a broader, romantic sense) - but dynamically, your bass transfers the energy you channel through it on the road to your expression - it's as a lot of life; a flow of energy. Electric current flows through receptive materials right? So why is it a stretch to believe that powerful (human) creative energy isn't flowing through receptive materials and leaving a memory? So personally, a way of connecting to that spiritual/creative/inspirational core is using what were the tools of expression from that year - knowing they have channeled 50 yrs of creative energy. A long and winding road indeed!

I feel that way about my '64 T-bird. I got it in '78 and it is the bass I still own I've had the longest. It now has more of my energy that it transferred through whoever owned it since it was new. It follows with me on the coil till I step off...

 

[JIO]

The '66 J body arrived and I straightaway stripped off the 'walnut' DIY finish. As Brian noted it was not clear what colour it was originally - but I'll guess it was the Fullerplast coated sunburst. You can see in the neck pocket and hallo-ing the "ES" there is a trace of yellow that became apparent once the brown stain was removed. In '66, CBS started the Fullerplast coating to homogenize the less than ideal wood used. (a cost-cutting move no doubt) Yellow came after, then red and finally the tobacco brown-black. On this body, there are a few pieces of alder that were glued together, but the obvious 'hide' was on the back where a big rough spot was filled. You can see it in the 2nd pic - I've already Bondo'd it. In the neck pocket, (hard to make out in the pic) there its a large pencil written "A" - (near the lower left hole) - you can see it clearer in the 4th and 5th unstripped pics above. I doubt if this is from Fender - more than likely initials of the re-finisher, whenever that was done. Upon close inspection after it arrived - it was apparent that it was a player. There was to-bare-wood fingernail wear at the bridge pu (similar to where I dwell) and lots of buckle scratches/indentures on the rear. I'm happy for this because it's clear it wasn't a closet queen - it was played and played a lot! And it also has 2 extra holes of the 70's placement of the tug-bar. Maybe this is when the refinish was done because the 70's "Mocha" /walnut colour was popular and the tug-bar moved to the top of the pg. As you can see in the 3rd pic, I filled them w/Bondo.

Hard to see but there are 2 paint-dowel fills on a center line through the body; one a couple inches below the neck plate area (partially hidden by marks) and one at the bottom near the edge. A sign of Fenders from this era.

 

[JIO]

So I sent the body to Marty Bell yesterday. I try to give both Pat and Marty work unless it involves their individual specialities (as in, Marty - sparkle finishes) and being a straight Oly white it doesn't really matter so much as they both do great work in the standard colour dept. Besides, Marty can turn a finish around quicker - usually in a couple of weeks.
I was thinking that once it's finished and back together - it will look exactly like it does now, and w/o splitting hairs will probably sound very much the same. But, it will be lighter - which will be welcomed, and it will be closer to an actual '66 J than it is now. Humorously so, I've so far found it hard to impress people I know with my success of acquiring an 'actual' 1966 body for my beloved J - I just get more of a, ok... that's nice. (an indicator of guitar geekdom)

 

[charlie monroe]

An 'actual' 66 J body? oh, ok ... that's nice.

J/K my friend. I'm very happy for you and share your joy

 

[JIO]

An 'actual' 66 J body? oh, ok ... that's nice.

J/K my friend. I'm very happy for you and share your joy

Well, I'm relatively safe here as in one degree or another anyone on tb is in the same geek-world so I'll continue fine-tuning my talisman! As in - I toyed with the idea of having it shot in lacquer, but as much as that would make it more 'authentic' to the year it won't really make a perceivable difference. I live in CA where no-lacquer is shot (by a licensed biz like Pat Wilkins and Marty Bell) and their beautiful poly finishes are durable. Fender CBS did a lot to (mis)shape peoples impressions over nitro vs poly finishes by doing thick poly finishes when they took over Fender. Poly finishes are not 'evil' and would have most likely been used as time evolved even if Leo still owned the company. And (duh!) poly finishes of the 70's are very different from the formulas today. They don't shoot cars in nitro anymore right? I love the way the old very played 50's/60's Fender nitro finishes look as they aged and gain scars from being used day in and day out. My "Show Your Distressed Finishes!" thread is testimony to that. But I don't play live every day, and I don't play aggressively enough to battle-scar my basses. I try not to get anal about nicks and scratches - they happen, and perfection is an illusion. The (poly) Oly white finish on my MIM J body is spotless after years of rehearsals and live gigs - partially because I generally take care with my basses but more so because it's a tough finish. There - I said it and I feel better now!

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Truth on the Poly, I never "got" the hype about nitro, no desire to breathe it in a spray booth either, let alone see it released into the atmosphere. I'm hoping the newer water-borne finishes will prove to be as durable (but less toxic) than poly or nitro. I'm learning how to spray WB Varathane, time will tell!!

 

[TundraMan]

It's like when Richard Dryfuss is fixating on a "Devils Tower, South Dakota" form/shape in "Close Encounters". Eventually it starts to make sense...

Just for clarification, Devil's Tower is in Wyoming.

 

[JIO]

Just for clarification, Devil's Tower is in Wyoming.

You are so right @TundraMan! I sub-consciencely credited your state! (love John Candy!)

 

[JIO]

Truth on the Poly, I never "got" the hype about nitro, no desire to breathe it in a spray booth either, let alone see it released into the atmosphere. I'm hoping the newer water-borne finishes will prove to be as durable (but less toxic) than poly or nitro. I'm learning how to spray WB Varathane, time will tell!!

Anymore the nitro thing is reduced to another marketing tool to $ell nostalgia. I personally like nitro and get the thin finish aspect as it's said a violin sounds best when it was new - raw wood. Luthiers for centuries had their guarded secret formula's for their varnish - a thin coating that would seal/protect the wood but not dilute the resonance/tonal response of the instrument. I also have to admit to believing in vintage (old) wood (of guitars/basses, whatever the instrument) that has been played for all those years - having a quality, an absorbed amount of resonance that a new piece of timber doesn't have. In an odd similarity, commercial house painting finishes are all going the acrylic (water based) route, but as one who knows intimately from 35 years of being in the trade - the thinner based enamel finishes have a quality that the acrylic finishes don't. To my eyes, an acrylic based finish looks like plastic, and a thinner based alkyd finish looks ... better. I know alkyd enamel finishes are becoming a thing of the past - especially here in CA, but I stand by my experience and eye as to the difference in visual and tactile "quality". (not to mention durability) The new acrylics are less toxic, easier to use and dry quicker - what's not to love as a professional painter. But if doing my own place - you know my answer to what I'd use. Having said all of this, I have no problem with modern poly finishes on guitars/basses - and also like nitro finishes (as I've done on a few of my recent builds). However, if I were doing 'production' - it would be another bridge to cross.

 

[JIO]

Here's a '66 J neck pocket in LPB from another concurrent thread with the (same) yellow base-coat and similar pencil writing. Also note the neck shim which looks similar to the ghost left in my neck pocket in the same place but shifted to the other corner.

 

[JIO]

Just saw this on eBay - a '66 P bass body stripped and refinished in pretty much the same brown stain! And an upper tug-bar was also added. More proof that brown ruled in the 70's! I guess 70's because that's when EVERYBODY was stripping the finishes off their guitars/basses - it was a thing. I had a pretty new trans red EB-3 back then and I stripped it to natural.This one was definitely sunburst as indicated by the neck pocket. It also has pencil writing in the neck pocket.

 

[Beej]

Just saw this on eBay - a '66 P bass body stripped and refinished in pretty much the same brown stain! And an upper tug-bar was also added. More proof that brown ruled in the 70's! I guess 70's because that's when EVERYBODY was stripping the finishes off their guitars/basses - it was a thing. I had a pretty new trans red EB-3 back then and I stripped it to natural.This one was definitely sunburst as indicated by the neck pocket. It also has pencil writing in the neck pocket.

View attachment 1407653

Nice, I wonder if it was the same owner...

Sooooooo... how much did you get it for?

 

[JIO]

Nice, I wonder if it was the same owner...

Sooooooo... how much did you get it for?

...no, it wasn't. The P body on eBay is grossly overpriced - and I saw a '66 J body that was also grossly overpriced. I paid as much as I thought it was worth it to me and what I would consider a very fair price for what it is in todays overinflated market. FTR, I bought it from tb'r @The Bass Clef who is an authority on 60's Fender basses and a person I consider to be someone who I can trust. It's funny this internet thing - I've only met one fellow tb member (from my coastal community here in Pacifica) but I feel I've gained a friendship with many people here since 2010, including you Beej - and I know that if I ever were to meet any of who I consider tb/internet "friends" - that I would be "in person" friends with them as well. So (again) FTR, as I know the Bay Area is a "tourist destination" - if any of my friends here on tb are ever in the area - I would love to meet and hang for an hr or two in person. You like Anchor Steam beer right?

 

[JIO]

Marty scores again! This sexy 51 year old (probably built at this point of the year '66) is looking' hot-to-trot on its B-day. Should get it on Thursday and have it assembled for next Sundays BG rehearsal. My shoulder really felt the 10lb weight last night and I'm looking forward to a lighter axe from here on in. I would love if it actually ended up being 8.6lbs, but I'll be happier whatever it weighs as it will be lighter. We have a bunch of shows coming up in the next few months so it's right on time!

 

[JIO]

'66 J body arrived late today - 4.9lbs - this confirms that paint adds weight. Weighed my bass before I disassembled the body and it is 10lbs even. Weight of the MIM body = 5lbs/10oz. So reassembled w/the '66 body - it should be 8lbs/15oz. I've been playing it through my '75 B-15N to establish it's sonic signature before the body swap with the anticipation of hearing a difference. As I said, it may sound pretty much the same but won't know until that time comes. I considered changing the pu's (now Fender Super 55 split-coils) and strings (now LaBella Deep Talkin' flats) but will wait on that until I hear any difference after the body swap. As I primarily use this bass for Bond Girl - those pu's and strings were specifically chosen related to the music we play. I try to bust a Carol Kaye tone which suits Bond/60's vintage show tunes. I looked to see if she played bass on any of those JB classics but the only "spy" related song I could find on her long list was Mission:Impossible, which we play. She used Thomastic Jazz flats on Fender P-basses back then. I tried them years ago, but I personally like the LaBella's. Interesting note about her P-basses - she recalls being pretty busy back then and when her strings needed replacing she would just trade her P for a new one (!) at a nearby music store on her lunch break. So there are a bunch of 60's P-basses out in the world that she played those legendary songs on - and with no record of it it will stay unknown which ones played which songs! My own '66 P-bass could have been one! Hah! I like everything about that!

Hard to depict in my pic, but the colour is a bit less warm. If I had to mix that colour I would add a bit or umber - not "grayer" but heading toward that. Olympic white is like every Fender colour - very flexible. Burgundy Mist, Fiesta red, Lake Placid blue - I've seen a variety of versions of these colours. Maybe mine yellowed over time, or maybe it was just different from the start. I started doing the fussy work of carefully opening up all the screw holes and trimming any edges (pu, neck cavities) I rewired the brass plates and bridge ground using period-correct cloth covered wire, mostly because I had it. I'll continue tomorrow -

 

[JIO]

Reassembled - I dunno, it sounds great but it sounded great before! Time will tell once I start rehearsing and playing live with it. It certainly looks great. The new lighter "Oly white" will take getting used to, but the lightness of weight will help. On a real '66 in Oly, some become very yellow over time. And the hs becomes even yellower. That's because of the clear coat used over the decals that they started doing after CBS bought Fender. My hs is pretty authentic in this regard (Pat Wilkins fine work) - and time may 'warm up' the body eventually. My deduction skills were spot-on as it weighs 8lbs/15oz. Much fussy work needed to be done - I have an Elek-Trix harness in it that has a push-pull series/parallel pot which requires a depth of 1-1/4". I had to remove the brass-plate (replaced with copper tape) to get it to clear (just). Lucky I'm (relatively) patient because it just takes time to make things work sometimes. Of course it's all after determining if time spent = worthwhile result. In this case off course - it did.

The brass plate was secured with small triangles like used in installing window panes and soldered in place. Not sure about this coming from the factory - possibly done when it was stripped/refinished.

I left the cavities as is (with no adverse result) I usually use carbon shielding paint but wanted to keep a part of it's history intact - love the patina's on the plate and base of the cavity.

 

[charlie monroe]

So nice

 

[JIO]