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700w amp rig can't keep up with guitars.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by njones89, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. njones89


    Mar 27, 2015
    Sioux Falls
    I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

    Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

    All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  2. Buy a matching 410 if you want to match firepower. Use earplugs. Find a new band. Sounds to me like you're the brains of the outfit. Find a group of bandmates that matches your musical and volume sensibilities more closely. You'll be happier in the long run. Do not run your gain at ten. I'll leave the pedal advice to those more experienced. Try master full and gain half.
  3. voided3

    voided3 Supporting Member

    Nov 11, 2008
    This is usually when I would say "Buy a used 8x10." I'll also say if the Acoustic cab is also 8 ohms, I'd fix the jack so you can make it operational.

    For this case, however, it sounds like your amp isn't the problem, but rather your sonic competition in the band.
  4. petrus61

    petrus61 Supporting Member

    They either need to turn down, or you’ll need another 410 (presumably @8ohms, bringing it to 4ohms) to get the most potential out of your amp. I’m not sure on your Amps specs, but it’s probably not putting out anywhere near it’s potential with that single 410.
  5. Using only an 8 ohm cab, your head is only pushing up to 275W
    MordBass, murphy, Firewraith and 7 others like this.
  6. soflbass


    Mar 2, 2013
    S Florida
    From your settings described, it appears you're scooping out your mids, which is the last thing you should do if you want to cut thru. Not only are your settings on the tone controls scooped, but you are scooping further by maxing the contour knob. Make adjustments during practice and start flat adjusting from there by adding mids and ridding yourself of scooping. It may be that your rig can never compete with that kind of volume.
    Seems you have several problems: one with your rig and the other with your bandmates. Can't help with the latter, but would suggest you have a serious discussion with them and if you can't come to an agreement about volume, be prepared to bail.
  7. Dave W

    Dave W Supporting Member

    Mar 1, 2007
    White Plains
    You are cutting mids. Boost them!

    Pull the lows down to 11:00 and boost the mids up to 2:00. Assuming the Contour is another mid cut, turn it off.

    You guys are all fighting for the same frequency range and by boosting mids you will give yourself a much better chance of being heard. Cutting mids sounds great in the bedroom but doesn't typically work well in a live band context let alone a metal band.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  8. njones89


    Mar 27, 2015
    Sioux Falls
    I will try playing flatline. If I use an EQ pedal, can I "scoop the mids" there without this problem?

    At this point I have been considering quitting for a while. I have some criticisms of the music we're writing and they're just not listening to my suggestions or willing to change anything. That coupled together with personal problems, and problems like this are going to lead to my exodus. I am kinda trying to wait it out through this Hard Rock Cafe battle of the bands competition before I do that, though. For me, that's the make it or break it for this band.
    Bad azz tone likes this.
  9. lz4005


    Oct 22, 2013
    No. Mids are where your volume is.
  10. jchrisk1


    Nov 15, 2009
    Northern MI
    I was going to say the same exact thing. Except for that last part.

    But yes, the contour knob should be all the way off for starters. Adjust as necessary, if at all. I would leave it off. Boost those mids, cut the bass so you can get more headroom, and turn your EQ pedal off until you get the amp sorted out. Then fine tune with the pedal if you'd like to.
  11. Oddly

    Oddly Unofficial TalkBass Cartographer! Supporting Member

    Jan 17, 2014
    Dublin, Ireland.
    I know this is the amps and cabs section, and this won't be the answer you want, but for your long term health, what you need to do is get out of this band and find people willing to play at a reasonable sensible volume.
    Tinnitus is no joke, and has ruined a lot of people's enjoyment of music and life.
  12. Dave W

    Dave W Supporting Member

    Mar 1, 2007
    White Plains
    LOL! Fixed...
    jchrisk1 likes this.
  13. pcake

    pcake Supporting Member

    Sep 20, 2011
    Los Angeleez
    copy/pasted from the firebass manual:
    "700 watts into 2 Ω, 475 watts into 4 Ω, 275 watts into 8 Ω".

    i've never found 275 watts would come even close to what i needed to play in a rock band with drummer, and since you're not diming it, you're playing lower than that. get a second neo 4x10 and you'll be playing at 475 watts plus moving a LOT more air.

    btw, you should never play rock except "soft rock" without earplugs - you'll end up with tinnitus and hearing dropoff, and it won't go away ever. it's true that earplugs are unpleasant, and if they really bother you it might be worth finding a different band if they won't turn down. years ago i played punk with a LOUD drummer, and ended up having to get a more powerful head and a second cab to keep up, and went through earplugs with every rehearsal.
  14. njones89


    Mar 27, 2015
    Sioux Falls
    I believe that my bandmates have lost a lot of hearing from playing at loud volumes because the volume keeps going up at practices! I wearing ear plugs about half of the time. I decided after that pain, I am not messing around anymore.
  15. BogeyBass


    Sep 14, 2010
    After Dealing with 2 guitarist in multiple bands.

    8x10 was my go to cab

    Just need move more air, so another matching 4x10 be good idea

    Or a used ampeg 8x10.

    Try not boost bass so much and boost mids. Deep bass might sound good playing solo. In a mix at high volume its getting drowned out and reducing the overhead of your cab before it farts out.
    son_of_mogh and Korladis like this.
  16. Yeah. You want to turn down the lows significantly. You can't compete with guitars by boosting the lows. Bunches of power going to make sound that you might feel, but don't hear.

    I'm not familiar with the specs on your 4x10 maybe someone knows the SPL for that cab. If the SPL is old school low SPL it won't matter a lot how much power you throw at it.

    In theory, adding a second matching 4x10 should get you to about twice as loud. But if you're speakers don't produce much to begin with, you have an uphill battle. It just might take a pair of modern, high SPL 4x10 cabs to compete with that squad of goofballs. The 1x15 with a 4x10 usually is not a very good combination. The 15 could actually be holding you back. But putting your power to the mids is a good starting point.
    lethargytartare and mcnach like this.
  17. DirtDog


    Jun 7, 2002
    The Deep North
    The only piece of extra equipment you need is a recorder. Play back the awful tones and mixes to your band member after practice. If they don't see the light, time to move on - saving a ton of $$$ and frustration in the process.
  18. saabfender


    Jan 10, 2018
    You need to pump some air to compete. 10 inchers ain't gonna cut it. Get a 2x15 or so. My current gigging cab is a 18x1, 10x2. No problem defeating loud idiots. And yes, always wear protection.
    Timggoer and Lvjoebass like this.
  19. The volume pissing matches never end. If you get another amp/cab, they'll just buy more stuff. It never ends well.

    Sounds like you are ready to exit regardless of volume. I say power through until the gig is done, then respectfully leave and find something that makes you happy.
  20. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    Intergalactic Mind Space
    Song Surgeon sofware
    Yeah, fix the jack on the Acoustic.

    Try even less lows, 9 o'clock and play with a pick.

    But yeah, leave that mess alone, battle of the bands or not. Volume wars are for babies.:banghead::spit::rage::thumbsdown::mad::rollno::bored::bawl::lock::crying::poop::sour::dead::(:confused:o_O

    I think the BoB is a waste of time, especially since you don't sound good at rehearsal.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018

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