700w amp rig can't keep up with guitars.

[okcrum]

I will try playing flatline. If I use an EQ pedal, can I "scoop the mids" there without this problem?

No.

Boost. The. Mids.

 

[nostatic]

contour knob/switch is the "let's play hide and seek in the mix" control. The more you turn, the more you hide.

You could also try adding speed holes to the guitar player's cab

 

[liquidsmoke]

Band meeting time. 'I can't hear myself or the vocals'

 

[njones89]

Band meeting time. 'I can't hear myself or the vocals'

Already tried that. And I was as blunt about it.

 

[lz4005]

You need to pump some air to compete. 10 inchers ain't gonna cut it. Get a 2x15 or so. My current gigging cab is a 18x1, 10x2. No problem defeating loud idiots. And yes, always wear protection.

Total area is what matters, not the size of each individual speaker.

 

[AdamR]

Like every one said, Don't cut the mids. Start with the contour off. Bass and treble flat, Mids slightly boosted.
Your amps rated wattage doesn't always matter. Ill take more speakers over more watts anyway. If you can get a matching GK410 that would be my first choice. I can bury both my guitarist in a volume war with my 300 watt GK 800RB through a Ampeg 810. One of them uses a 5150 through a 412. The other is using a AxeFX with a 1000 watt power amp through a ported 212. They can get pretty loud.

 

[bobbybass85]

As was said, mids are the key. IME no sensible amount of wattage and speakers makes up for lacking mids. Think of the amp this way:

Bass = Rumble
Mids = Mix in the band (this is where you HEAR bass tone)
Highs = Clarity

If you sound muddy, either turn down your rumble or up your clarity. If you sound good (and loud) while playing alone but go missing when the band plays. Turn your mix up.

 

[saabfender]

Total area is what matters, not the size of each individual speaker.

Not area, volume.

 

[bucephylus]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

Is this a working band or a "for fun" band? If the former, then you have cause to argue the point that they aren't paying attention to the mix. Working bands simply don't do that, because that approach to ensemble sound does not get gigs.

If the latter (which is fine, BTW), then make sure the first thing you do is get some good ear plugs. You should NEVER under any circumstances for any reason leave a musical rehearsal with pain in your ears. That is your body telling you not to do that. There are inexpensive membrane plugs that maintain fidelity, but cut dB's. Get some.

Unfortunately, physics says that guitarists can blow the rest of the band away if they choose to do it. Club owners usually won't employ bands that play that way. The most laughable thing to me is that most guitarists who play way too loud during rhythm parts can't play a solo to save their soul when the time comes that they should be louder. Competent guitarists understand dynamics.

Anyhow, the main thing for you to do is protect your hearing. There will be other gigs.

 

[bassliner50]

Beware tinnitus!

 

[njones89]

Yeah, fix the jack on the Acoustic.

Try even less lows, 9 o'clock and play with a pick.

But yeah, leave that mess alone, battle of the bands or not. Volume wars are for babies.

I think the BoB is a waste of time, especially since you don't sound good at rehearsal.

I agree that BoB generally aren't worth it. This one has a payout even if you lose, but if you win, you get to compete in a larger one with all expenses paid. So it is a pretty serious opportunity.

The only piece of extra equipment you need is a recorder. Play back the awful tones and mixes to your band member after practice. If they don't see the light, time to move on - saving a ton of $$$ and frustration in the process.

We use a recorder when we are writing new songs. They remain unaware of their garbage tones. The one that dimes gain is very noodly and makes many mistakes. Clean tone is garbage. The other one is not bad, but his guitar is not intonated and constantly out of tune, but you can't really tell with the extra lows.

You need to pump some air to compete. 10 inchers ain't gonna cut it. Get a 2x15 or so. My current gigging cab is a 18x1, 10x2. No problem defeating loud idiots. And yes, always wear protection.

The volume pissing matches never end. If you get another amp/cab, they'll just buy more stuff. It never ends well.

Hey I have a Kickback amp with a 15 in it. It is loud when mids are boosted, but I had to upgrade because it wasn't cutting. I got an acoustic 200w amp and a matching 410. The one guitarist got a tube amp, and I got lost in the mix with any eq setting. So I got the Firebass and not long after that, I got another 410 because the other cab had faulty/loose jacks. Then the other guitarist got himself the combo amp.

 

[gjohnson441496]

I really feel for you man. Good thing you got the earplugs. Smart move. I play guitar now and, as you've discovered, a 50 watt tube amp is LOUD. If you decide to stay, you're going to need a tube amp or at least 1000 watt class A tube SS.

 

[dbase]

I have the exact same problem .. Rhythm is using 4 12's 800 watt, Lead guitar is using 4 12's.. super loud.. I ended up using a 200 watt Ampeg B2R into 8x10 Hartke cab. I now can hold my own but it's all one big freekin loud noise fest at practice. They want kick ass rock and roll.

 

[MDBass]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

You're scooping almost all of your mids out, no small wonder you can't hear yourself.

Turn the contour knob all the way down, set all EQ at noon and go from there.

Record a rehearsal and use the audio to address any leveling issues you still have: if the drums are inaudible, the guitars are WAY too loud.

 

[Stumbo]

I agree that BoB generally aren't worth it. This one has a payout even if you lose, but if you win, you get to compete in a larger one with all expenses paid. So it is a pretty serious opportunity.

Yeah, that may be true but Based on your description of the group, you won't win anything other than people's praise when you stop playing.

 

[chris_b]

I would:
a) quit,
b) get some really, really good ear plugs,
c) point the guitar rigs away from you and straight back at the guitarists,
d) get another cab,
e) push the low mids, mids and top end,
f) these guitarists are idiots. For your sanity and bass playing, just quit.

 

[Dogbertday]

I would effin quit if volume was that bad...

But barring that, mids and earplugs.

 

[grimjim]

I never wore earplugs at practice until I was in a band with the drummer from "Angry Beaver". So loud the snare was painful. Started wearing the foam earplugs but that really messes with the sound. I use ear plugs by v-moda now. They do roll off some of the higher frequencies, not as bad as the foam ones, but you can talk at normal levels and still hear.

If they refuse to turn down even after you mention ear pain? Plus the other issues you mentioned. I think I would walk away.

 

[njones89]

Won't my amp be significantly louder (than guitar amps) if I turn the mids all the way up, bass off, use an overdrive with full gain? Maybe that will get my message across.

 

[liquidsmoke]

Already tried that. And I was as blunt about it.

Damn. Being louder than the drummer at practice is pointless.