700w amp rig can't keep up with guitars.

[gumtown]

Two ways around this:
1) Load into the practice room, as many cabinets and amps you can get your hands on, PA subs and power amps,
take up the whole back wall to the roof, and play your loudest.
Then show them that if you are to keep up wit the guitars, then this is the way it has to be.

2) You, the drummer, the singer play super quietly, keep turning down, until the guitarists get the picture,
even make a recording of your practice session, mic'ing the room and recording in front of the guitar cabs, so the recording is 98% guitars.
Then play it back to the band, and ask them if this is the right sort of mix and balance the band should sound like.

one other option:
have the guitarists get their ears surgically moved to the backs of their knees so they can hear themselves.

 

[bearhart74]

Pick one and get ready to hear it for the rest of your life
Link Removed

 

[bassestkkm]

Just turn off and walk away at rehearsal. If it's unacceptable then that's exactly what it is.

 

[john_g]

I have the solution to your problems: elevate the cab....









Then drop it on your guitarists heads.

 

[jamro217]

Another runaway train scenario. Explain to them that rehearsal is about learning and ironing out problems. Some of the most productive rehearsals I've been in didn't even have instruments, just one guitar and vocals. It was more like a seminar where everybody had to sing their parts at the right time while pretending to play. Try it. Not only can you tell who's screwing up the vocals, but you can tell who's ruining the timing. If they just want to play volume wars, split.

 

[bearhart74]

make guitarists sit on the floor in front of their cabs for just one song

 

[gjohnson441496]

This is a "for fun" band. They all have the serious attitude and want to become successful musicians, but they lack IMO the fundamental skillsets outside of musical ability to do so. I think that for that reason, this band will never become a "working band" in any capacity - covers or originals. I would like to see them become successful; I see problems with the music we're playing and I see problems fundamentally, like with the band mix and whatnot, but they do not want to change anything. I think our guitarist is too noodly for most people who are not Petrucci fans to appreciate - I also play guitar and I find most of what he does to be annoying or showy instead of quality. Our vocalist/guitarist has a decent voice, but does not choose the best melodies and phrasing. I do not like his lyrics at all. They are not catchy. His crowd interaction is boring. He thinks he is funny but comes across as overcompensating for something. I have started to write my own music for the first time in my life (I recording my first track ever this weekend) and I'm hoping it goes somewhere. I really wish the problems in this band would just resolve on their own... our drummer is just awesome. He is probably the only one that legitimately considers my suggestions and he is easy to work with. My only qualm with him is that he just isn't great at jamming stuff.

All of this makes me just not want to play bass. I would rather pick guitar back up, find a good bassist and drummer and go from there. I sincerely doubt I will ever find a guitarist I like to play with... so I should become what I hate now that I am sympathetic to the issue.

After reading this^I think you should quit. You don't want to lose your hearing for these guys. Furthermore, you're not being heard anyway, so what's the point?

Won't my amp be significantly louder (than guitar amps) if I turn the mids all the way up, bass off, use an overdrive with full gain? Maybe that will get my message across

The answer to this is, not necessarily. It depends on the room acoustics. The other thing, everybody turning up is not the answer. More volume doesn't resolve the issue, and it sounds like you're trying to reason with bricks. Get out and be done with it.

 

[two fingers]

Forgive me if I am piling on. I did not read every post.

Do the opposite of what you have been doing with your settings. Boost mids and cut lows. It will sound "thinner" to an extent but will cut through much better.

Also, do this experiment. Start a song with your bass volume completely off. Just turn it all they way down. Fake playing. Just go through the motions and act as if you are playing but your bass is literally turned off. If nobody notices, do it again. Play as many songs as it takes with literally zero volume until someone says "I can't hear the bass."

If nobody ever says that, get about five or six songs in and them stop everyone in the middle of a song. Ask what everyone thinks of your bass line in that song. See what the answers are. Likely they will say "Whatever you're doing sounds fine." Then you can announce to them that your volume has been turned OFF for several songs and nobody even noticed. "So, clearly, you guys are good enough that you don't need a bass player. I'm out."

Problem solved.

 

[Chef]

Why are you still playing with them?
Unproductively loud rehearsals; hearing damage, folks that won't be cooperative?
Sounds like an unenjoyable and catastrophic waste of time
YMMV etc

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

 

[codycon96]

This is a "for fun" band. They all have the serious attitude and want to become successful musicians, but they lack IMO the fundamental skillsets outside of musical ability to do so. I think that for that reason, this band will never become a "working band" in any capacity - covers or originals. I would like to see them become successful; I see problems with the music we're playing and I see problems fundamentally, like with the band mix and whatnot, but they do not want to change anything. I think our guitarist is too noodly for most people who are not Petrucci fans to appreciate - I also play guitar and I find most of what he does to be annoying or showy instead of quality. Our vocalist/guitarist has a decent voice, but does not choose the best melodies and phrasing. I do not like his lyrics at all. They are not catchy. His crowd interaction is boring. He thinks he is funny but comes across as overcompensating for something. I have started to write my own music for the first time in my life (I recording my first track ever this weekend) and I'm hoping it goes somewhere. I really wish the problems in this band would just resolve on their own... our drummer is just awesome. He is probably the only one that legitimately considers my suggestions and he is easy to work with. My only qualm with him is that he just isn't great at jamming stuff.

All of this makes me just not want to play bass. I would rather pick guitar back up, find a good bassist and drummer and go from there. I sincerely doubt I will ever find a guitarist I like to play with... so I should become what I hate now that I am sympathetic to the issue.

Take your drummer aside, tell him that you want to ditch those two primadonna's and start a better, more volume suitable band. That's what I'd do.

 

[Plectrum72]

Tell them they can play as loud as they like, but only if they put their cabs up at the same height as their ears and stand in front of them.

 

[pudgychef]

Contour is dialed up all the way.

this is the problem - need those mids back to sit in the mix - your contour is significantly adding to the difficulty being heard - mids + band setting = hear the bass imho/ime/ymmv

 

[InhumanResource]

They either need to turn down, or you'll need another 410 (presumably @8ohms, bringing it to 4ohms) to get the most potential out of your amp. I'm not sure on your Amps specs, but it's probably not putting out anywhere near it's potential with that single 410.

Wattage isn't the issue, just not enough speaker. We can pump more juice through that cab all day but I bet it won't get much louder then what his existing head is producing through it. We'll just end up toasting the cab.

I'd bet that 2 of those cabs with even less power would do the job just fine. Speakers get you way more mileage in terms of volume than power does.

 

[liquidsmoke]

Regarding hearing damage, my ears ring even after playing with drummers that don't hit very hard when I don't wear earplugs. Cymbals are extremely hard on ears. This type of pug is great for practices and live use and you can even remove the hard plastic center piece if you want to let more sound in-

 

[Machiavelli]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

Ive never owned your amp, but on mine "turning up contour all the way" will scoop out your mids. Try going the other way.

 

[Whil57]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

I did three weeks with some guys like that. I couldnt understand why i couldnt hear the drummer (next to me) and why my ears started clicking at home. To top it off, when i was looking at a PA problem and tracing the extra wires- they had DI'd their amp outputs into the PA to boot. When i asked why one said he liked the tone, the other said he needed volume. That was my last night.

 

[pudgychef]

Our vocalist is the guitarist with the Bugera rig. I guess he can hear himself because he never complains about it. I am closer to the monitors and I can't hear it! The drummer is wearing noise cancelling headphones lol. He is the rose between two thorns with the way the practice room is set up. Of course he can hear himself. He usually has a problem hearing everybody else. He also plays louder to accommodate the louder amps, but I can't really hear anything at that volume except for the clipping noises from the guitars.

I think I am the ONLY person who listens to the whole mix. In fact when i speak to the other members individually, they admit they only listen to themselves. Big problem!

+ 1 to the suggestion of recording practice (not just song creation - actual rehearsing of songs) then sit down and listen to it as a group - solves a lot of this very quickly when people hear the mess (ime/ymmv)

 

[ezstep]

I used a Max700 for quite a while and still have it. I have used it for subs a time or two (it has a built-in x-over). It is pretty loud.

But, the other guys are correct. The Contour is off when all the way to the left and full on when dimed to the right. You are definitely cutting your mids. Listen to them, as they are correct. Turn it all the way to the left (basically, "off") and then set your sound from there without using the Contour, or at least as little as possible. The mids provide your punch, and you have eq'd them out.

 

[amphlett7]

Won't my amp be significantly louder (than guitar amps) if I turn the mids all the way up, bass off, use an overdrive with full gain? Maybe that will get my message across.

If they complain about your volume, just laugh at them and explain that this is because they wouldn't turn down

 

[phillipkregg]

Sounds like you need to find some other people to play with