700w amp rig can't keep up with guitars.

[beaglesandbass]

Rig aside, your band needs to work on volume dynamics. Most of the time it's going to sound like complete crap if everyone is just trying to outdo each other. It's called a mix for a reason. Everyone has their own sonic space that they're supposed to fit into. I rehearse with a 200w 1x12 combo and have no problem being heard with the volume not even close to 50%.

As far as the rig goes, stop cutting your mids. Mids are your friend, not the enemy.

A second 4x10 can't hurt the situation, but it's treating a symptom, not your problem.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Listen to this.
The bass punches through the guitars with boosted mids.
Do this!

 

[Andy Daventry]

Yes, the mids are the issue EQ wise, but it's also about having a sensible amp for guitars. There's a reason the Fender deluxe is 22 watts. I was in one band with a guy who played through a beautiful 1970s MV silver face pro reverb - God's own amp for guitars in my opinion - but NOT in a small bar. These are the 70 watt Pros. A beautiful sound which swamped everything else. You can't just turn guitar amps down. It doesn't work like that. Sometimes the guitarist really needs a smaller amp or fewer speakers. We bullied him into getting a 40 watt Marshall 1x12 combo. The guitar sound was not as good, but the sound of the band was ten times better. He was allowed to bring out the Pro at larger gigs.

The point is, you are the bass player. You play the whole band as well as your instrument. You keep things together while the guitarists....indulge in self abuse. Take charge.

 

[two fingers]

You need to pump some air to compete. 10 inchers ain't gonna cut it. Get a 2x15 or so. My current gigging cab is a 18x1, 10x2. No problem defeating loud idiots. And yes, always wear protection.

I won't go too deep into it because it would derail the thread. But speaker size will not determine how loud a cab will be, how "bassy" it will sound, or how it cuts through a mix. It's cabinet tuning. Physics.

This cab handles lower frequencies, is louder, and moves more air with 5" speakers.....

.....than this cab with an 18" speaker.

No big deal. A lot of us (myself included) had to have some preconceived notions smashed when we got here. It hapoens to me almost daily and I've been here for years!

 

[Marley's Ghost]

Go up to each guitarist and point in the other direction and say "look, there's Yngwie". While they are distracted, turn the bass on their rigs to zero and replace the knobs with dummy knobs that show bass at 11. Problem solved.

 

[ThinCrappyTone]

I dunno man, if you're playing with 2 guys who like blasting horrible tone at ungodly volume, and they don't give af whether or not their bassist can hear himself, there's some deeply ingrained selfish idiocy going on that must be manifesting itself in other ways. I would bail. You're the hard-to-replace member. Crappy guitarists are a dime a dozen.

 

[gazzatriumph]

If they are too loud now wait til you play a gig, they will be worse. I would ask them to turn down if they wont I would leave.

 

[hrodbert696]

As a band management issue, they get their pissing contest over with or I walk. I usually play in a rock band with 200 watts through a 2x10, hear myself fine and venues complain we're just shy of being too loud.

 

[Phlipper]

Two things, both probably already posted ....

One ... I have the final gen Firebass, the Max 700. And with a single 8 ohm Avatar 2x12 it would hang with any pair of halfstacks I ever came across. With my dual 4 ohm 2x12s it would crush any guitar amp made and sound good doing it. You have plenty of amp.

Two ... as everyone else is saying, time for a come to geezus meeting. With the band. There's no reason to play at volumes requiring ear plugs. That's ridiculous. As a lead guitarist I've been in bar bands that would run customers off with volume. Just stupid. I refuse to do it. Either they wise up or find another band.

Good luck.

 

[Bassbeater]

More than once I've played in thrash bands where I had to wear earplugs AND the ear protectors(the null dampening headphones like used in factories) during practice. Surprisingly this flattens the sound so much you can hear everything evenly. Not like your missing out on any sweet tones in that room anyway. Let those two dumbsh1ts go deaf if they insist, just seeing you wear the double ear protection might get them to turn down. Also, find better musicians.

 

[Phlipper]

All of this makes me just not want to play bass. I would rather pick guitar back up, find a good bassist and drummer and go from there. I sincerely doubt I will ever find a guitarist I like to play with... so I should become what I hate now that I am sympathetic to the issue.

I played guitar for 30 years before I started switching off on bass and I'm kinda picky about who I play behind, too. I refuse to play behind any guy who drones lead breaks on and on to Hendrix, SRV, Skynyrd, etc. It's boring. I don't do it as a lead guitarist. And I hate playing behind guitarists who dime the gain. That's ridiculous. Sounds like ass. And I definitely won't play behind guys that are too loud. I love melting power tubes just like everyone else. But attenuators are cheap.

 

[fhm555]

Why are you bothering with this? You don't need a louder rig, you need to address the volume issue with the guitarists.
If they are unwilling to work on it, walk away before you have to learn sign language and lip reading.

 

[jeffbass]

I played with a cat who used a 50 watt Marshall tube combo. Had to have those glowin' tubes for OD, which I get. I was using an Ampeg SVT 4 Pro and couldn't keep up through a 4X10. It's one thing that led to my leaving that band- and it was busy and really good. But after a while, the volume wars wore me down.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Been said before, but:

- a 700 watt amp is overkill for many gigs, let alone rehearsal
- that amount of bass cab is overkill for many gigs, let alone rehearsal
- that amount of guitar amp is overkill for many gigs, let alone rehearsal
- ear plugs on, and your ears are ringing. What does that tell you?

#_-&$@, get out of the situation. Let them deal with crippling pain and hearing loss.

 

[MtManiac]

From your settings described, it appears you're scooping out your mids, which is the last thing you should do if you want to cut thru. Not only are your settings on the tone controls scooped, but you are scooping further by maxing the contour knob. Make adjustments during practice and start flat adjusting from there by adding mids and ridding yourself of scooping.

I came here to say this also - why would you scoop your *mids*? If you're playing solo in your bedroom, this might sound good, or if you're actually playing a solo it might sound good, but this is where your bass sits in the mix, and you're cutting out all the good stuff. This alone will make a significant difference. Turn the contour all the way off, and maybe drop your highs and lows to like 10:00 - this is likely where "flat" is for these settings, flat for mid is often at noon or 1:00. Turn the tone knob on your bass down a little, also to about 8-9.

Use heavier gauge strings? I don't know what you have for strings, or if you're playing a five string and mostly hanging out on the B. If so, a compressor should help.

A second 410 will not only give you the extra wattage that comes with 4 Ohms, it will also give you significantly more air to push, and will be a lot louder.

However, as has been noted several times, practicing at loud volumes will ensure that you as a band suck - because you won't be able to listen to each other or yourselves, and get tight. My advice is spend 3/4 rehearsals at low volume, and maybe 1/4 rehearsals at loud volume just for fun and to blow off steam.

 

[WaynerBass]

Proper EQ'ing goes a long way

 

[overit]

leave

 

[CatchaCuda]

I'm no expert, but here is my .02
For practice have your drummer find his/her realistic volume. Then get your bass setup to cooperate with the drums. Slowly add some guitar into the mix. If this isn't something the guitarists can accept, find players who aren't competing.

And yes ear protection should be mandatory. I've worked in loud factories in the past, hearing loss is no joke and is permanent.

 

[klejst]

More speakers.

 

[lfmn16]

I guess I missed what is so special about these knuckle heads that it's worth risking your hearing and a life time of tinnitus to play with them. Just walk away, you'll never get a gig with these dim bulbs anyway.

You've got it completely backwards. The problem is NOT that you aren't loud enough, the problem is that they are too loud. You can't fix stupid.