700w amp rig can't keep up with guitars.

[Phlipper]

Already mentioned, but ...

Once your hearing goes it doesn't come back. I just had a hearing test for a new job and I'm at 50% loss left ear and 25 to 30 right. Some of it is likely from 35 years off and on in motorcycle clubs. But 40+ years playing VOLUME WARS definitely contributed.

I refuse nowadays. Turn down to a sane level, put up plexiglass, or run an attenuator or I'm gone. You can't get that back or get rid of tinnitus.

 

[two fingers]

Tell them they can play as loud as they like, but only if they put their cabs up at the same height as their ears and stand in front of them.

I have done this twice and it worked perfectly. In my case I used the term "pointed at your head".

"You can play as loud as you want. Right now your amp is pointed at YOUR ankles and MY head. If you point your amp at YOUR head, go nuts."

One tilted his amp back (and turned down) and the other used my mixer stand to put the top speakers if his 4-12 cab at ear level (and turned down).

 

[Paulabass]

Already mentioned, but ...

Once your hearing goes it doesn't come back. I just had a hearing test for a new job and I'm at 50% loss left ear and 25 to 30 right. Some of it is likely from 35 years off and on in motorcycle clubs. But 40+ years playing VOLUME WARS definitely contributed.

I refuse nowadays. Turn down to a sane level, put up plexiglass, or run an attenuator or I'm gone. You can't get that back or get rid of tinnitus.

So true!! I've always been in reasonable volume bands (except for the excessive 80's), but being near the cymbals has taken it toll. Thank goodness no tinnitus, but I've lost a lot of highs.

 

[Savage_Dreams]

if theyre so loud its painful and they wont turn down why are you trying to keep up? id be gone.

 

[Mvilmany]

Guitarists need to turn down bass, you need to turn up mids.

 

[Plutonium244]

I think the consensus is pretty solid here:

1) They need to turn TF down, or you need to find a different band.

2) A more powerful amp (and/or a 2nd cab) would be helpful even if not playing so loud anymore. Head room if nothing else; clear volume when you need more level.

3) They need to turn TF down, or you need to find a different band.

4) Roll back a little bass, add some mids on the amp. The low mud is your enemy here. Those guys are already bringing too much.

5) They need to turn TF down, or you need to find a different band.

6) Don't dime the master. Gain at somewhere between 11 and 1 to start, adjust master from there until appropriate. If the master gets above 75% then edge up the gain.

7) They need to turn TF down, or you need to find a different band.

Also, you didn't say (or I missed it) what kind of bass you play and how you set those controls, which can obviously make a huge difference. Same principle as above, though-- don't muddy with lows in a silly loud setting; keep your mids.

 

[seamonkey]

Get a small mixer, some isolating IEMs or good heaphones, and run your own monitor mix.

 

[higain617]

You are cutting mids. Boost them!

Pull the lows down to 11:00 and boost the mids up to 2:00. Assuming the Contour is another mid cut, turn it off.

You guys are all fighting for the same frequency range and by boosting mids you will give yourself a much better chance of being heard. Cutting mids sounds great in the bedroom but doesn't typically work well in a live band context let alone a metal band.

This. Turn up the mids and turn down the bass.

 

[Robroy]

Comes in various output count configurations. It is the ultimate way to rehearse and really saves your ears to boot.

 

[lfmn16]

The last time our BL asked our guitarist (who had been with the band nearly 20 years at that point, so it was no lark) to turn down, this mild mannered, nice, musically gifted guy whom I loved (as a person and as a musician) told the BL to go f himself and that was the last gig he played with us. Moral of the story? Volume can be a touchy subject.

Sounds like a win, win to me. In my current band, we ask each other if we are too loud. No volume problems here. But then again, we are adults.

 

[Robroy]

But then again, we are adults.

That really is the bottom line, and the reason this is such a common problem.

"Adult musician" is almost an oxymoron.

 

[74hc]

My view is that pain in your ears, and ringing for days afterwords is a message to quit that band. Don't put the band over your health.

 

[GonzoBfiddy]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

 

[Joebone]

Have not read whole thread, but note that on the Audiokinesis thread in amps/cabinets, Duke LeJeune has posted some graphs indicating that many guitar speakers peak at 2.2 kHz, but have dip at 1.6kHz, suggesting that if you can notch your eq to boost and cut at the inverse of these points, you'll have a better chance.

Also noting that if you have 8-ohm cabinet, your amp may not be providing much oomph.

And, finally, yeah, the guitarists are way too loud!

 

[jaymelewis]

A band that doesn't play to each other isn't a band - it's musicians playing at the same time. You want players who listen and want to blend with you, and I've found that to be more of an attitude thing, not necessarily something you can teach someone. I could be wrong though.

 

[GonzoBfiddy]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

Have you tried asking the guitarists (and everyone else involved) to "TURN TF DOWN?!?!" Or maybe have a meeting to discuss the issue? Burning up and/or buying new gear hardly seems like the answer. Dynamics is an important part of performing live music no matter what the genre. If you just decide to dive in and do the same thing the guitarists are by "getting vengeful" as you said I seriously don't see the problem getting better. I mean, I'm not sure if you are having an issue with your rig and it might be a great idea to take it for a diagnostic exam to eliminate it as defective and part of the problem or not, but if there are no strategies in place among you and your mates around stage volume and how it affects all involved then the rigs involved hardly appear to be the problem. Talk it out with your mates, and get your rig checked out!! That would be a start in my opinion.

 

[pbassnut]

First order of bizniz ... quit that band immediately. Your hearing is priceless. Rehearsal is where you and your band need to hear nuance in order to improve cohesiveness ... not a deafening roar. If those clown guitar players you're playing with want to play screaming loud in rehearsal, that it's clear that they don't have the slightest idea of what they're doing and aren't worth your time and effort.

<<
Contour is dialed up all the way.
>>

Second order of bizniz ... stop attenuating your midrange with that contour button. Squashed mids is about the quickest way to play loud but not be heard.

 

[Koog]

I have no great wisdom about this, but once the volume wars start, there is seldom an easy solution. The war, unfortunately is about individual egos and, in this circumstance, somebody is always going to feel like they got stepped on.

Making music as a band is about laying ego aside and finding a way to work as a cohesive unit to create something that gives you a great sense of satisfaction and motivates you to find the next level of excellence, regardless of genre. After all, you're not competitors, you're on the same team.

There are no winners in volume wars. Take it from an old guy who still has a bit of hearing left....find an amicable solution or get outta there. It is not worth your hearing health, to say nothing of the stress and bad feelings that are created by a situation like this.

 

[dawind99]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

Get the hell out of that band! Don't jeopardize your hearing or waste another moment of precious time with musicians that obviously don't know what ensemble means. A band is something to be enjoyed. It's not a competition. The best band is just that because of the sum of it's parts. Music is a conversation and at it's best has nuance, dynamics and communication.

 

[Runlikegregg]

you need earplugs, another 410 cab, less contour and defeating your compressor will help too.
Mids are your friend.