700w amp rig can't keep up with guitars.

[tedious1]

Won't my amp be significantly louder (than guitar amps) if I turn the mids all the way up, bass off, use an overdrive with full gain? Maybe that will get my message across.

I think you simply need to walk. If they won't listen when you talk, they won't listen to this either, they'll just twist the knob, and if that doesn't cut, they'll add a cab. You can't win going the sound war route, and if they won't listen to anything else, try quitting, maybe when they realize you are serious they'll be willing to discuss...but they probably won't change.

You good sir need to walk away from this and find a band where the musicians want to be musicians, not noise generators.

 

[TheReceder]

I'm old so understand that my advice is going to sound like an old fart yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

You getting louder isn't anything near the thing that needs to be fixed.
If you're the only one that thinks it's loud, the rest of the band is a bunch of idiots that don't deserve your time. If they want to make it as a band, what good will they be in 3 years when they're all deaf.

If it's supposed to be for fun, well being deaf, or on the lighter side, tinnitus isn't fun.
It can really make life for a musician suck. Don't put yourself in that position.

Admittedly I was guilty of playing loud and proud with an old 4x15 acoustic cab with a 320 head. I got smart.
Now I play in a band with a guitar player that deals with tinnitus and I can carry my combo, effects, a stool and my bass in in one load. It's amazing how much better you can sound when the guitar player has tinnitus and hates it when loud volume sets off "the tone" in his head. Our sound man loves it, when we record practices we can hear everyone (and their mistakes)

Be smart, if they can't turn down save yourself a life of hell and run away.

Time to go drive around with my blinker on for a couple hours. G'luck.

 

[JimiLL]

Quit the band. Too squiddy

 

[pcake]

I think the consensus is pretty solid here:

1) They need to turn TF down, or you need to find a different band.

2) A more powerful amp (and/or a 2nd cab) would be helpful even if not playing so loud anymore. Head room if nothing else; clear volume when you need more level.

3) They need to turn TF down, or you need to find a different band.

4) Roll back a little bass, add some mids on the amp. The low mud is your enemy here. Those guys are already bringing too much.

5) They need to turn TF down, or you need to find a different band.

6) Don't dime the master. Gain at somewhere between 11 and 1 to start, adjust master from there until appropriate. If the master gets above 75% then edge up the gain.

7) They need to turn TF down, or you need to find a different band.

Also, you didn't say (or I missed it) what kind of bass you play and how you set those controls, which can obviously make a huge difference. Same principle as above, though-- don't muddy with lows in a silly loud setting; keep your mids.

the OP is only playing at a max of about 250 watts, and i've never played in a hard rock, punk or metal band where that's enough.

 

[chadds]

What happens if band is asked to play louder at this gig and turn down at the next? All rooms aren't the same. Can the band sound good at any volume? If not they are wankers and not musicians. It's about how they feel which is.....wanking.

Trust me there are never enough bassists. You'll find a gig.

 

[gln1955]

the OP is only playing at a max of about 250 watts, and i've never played in a hard rock, punk or metal band where that's enough.

If 250 watts isn't enough for rehearsal, something's wrong. If everyone's overplaying the drummer, something's wrong.

 

[honeyiscool]

the OP is only playing at a max of about 250 watts, and i've never played in a hard rock, punk or metal band where that's enough.

That's weird to me. I've seen plenty of louder rock bands around town with 100-200 watt amps. I personally prefer having way more wattage but that's also because I choose to carry smaller and lighter cabs. A 200 watt rig can be louder than a 400 watt rig easily. Watts are just a number.

 

[Andyman001]

I'll echo what a couple of others advised - next practice turn your volume OFF for a few tunes (continue to "play").

if no one notices - start packing up, they don't need you. you need to find something else.

 

[powmetalbassist]

I will try playing flatline. If I use an EQ pedal, can I "scoop the mids" there without this problem?

At this point I have been considering quitting for a while. I have some criticisms of the music we're writing and they're just not listening to my suggestions or willing to change anything. That coupled together with personal problems, and problems like this are going to lead to my exodus. I am kinda trying to wait it out through this Hard Rock Cafe battle of the bands competition before I do that, though. For me, that's the make it or break it for this band.

My thoughts is if it is already at the point of make or break, maybe you have already decided.

I think you simply need to walk. If they won't listen when you talk, they won't listen to this either, they'll just twist the knob, and if that doesn't cut, they'll add a cab. You can't win going the sound war route, and if they won't listen to anything else, try quitting, maybe when they realize you are serious they'll be willing to discuss...but they probably won't change.

You good sir need to walk away from this and find a band where the musicians want to be musicians, not noise generators.

Also what this guy said.

 

[Bad azz tone]

If you lived closer to me I would lone you my rig. I use my power for punch and definition,not for volume. BUT! it can get very loud. You really need to find better players, these guys are not doing anything for you. There is much more to being a great player than playing loud,like communication, working with others,traits that your current band mates don't seem to posses. You could always show them this thread then move on.

 

[Amajew]

I'll echo what a couple of others advised - next practice turn your volume OFF for a few tunes (continue to "play").

if no one notices - start packing up, they don't need you. you need to find something else.

This is perfect!!!

I agree with everyone stating tell them to respect you to turn down so you don't have to spend more cash on a rig as what you have should be more than enough for rehearsals and majority of gigs.

I had a volume battle with some clowns a few years ago. One guitarist needed to play through 6 x 12" speakers with his 50w 5150 head and have it screaming. Every damn time we'd rehearse the drummer would complain he couldn't hear anything after 20 minutes of playing.

Playing music shouldn't be about seeing who is louder than who. Heck, bringing the amps down nice and low and give the drummer some brushes to see how much better you can hear each other and what is going on to tighten the band up.

 

[ghostinthemach]

Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

That's not rehearsing. That's ego flexing.

 

[AngryHammer]

Won't my amp be significantly louder (than guitar amps) if I turn the mids all the way up, bass off, use an overdrive with full gain? Maybe that will get my message across.

Yeah man, if they won't listen about the noise, just turn up your full stack so they can't hear.

shagit.

 

[SirMjac28]

You don't need anything just tell those morons to turn the volume down and it's the main reason I stopped going to local live shows too many people think the higher the volume the better the sound.

 

[Floridabwoy]

You are cutting mids. Boost them!

Pull the lows down to 11:00 and boost the mids up to 2:00. Assuming the Contour is another mid cut, turn it off.

This

 

[el murdoque]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

You describe 1:1 what I have in one band practice room with a postpunk band.
Here is what helped me a lot:
1. Serious firepower. I also had an old Peavey head. The max wattage is @ 2 ohms, which means with the amp dimed at one 8 ohm cab, you get about a quarter of the 700W. I needed to run my peavey head with two cabs (good ones with massive SPL) with the master dimed and the gain set to max before clipping started and it was barely enough.
I switched to a 500W Class D head then and that made my amp loud enough. Still, a 4x12 stack was needed.

2. Room management. Get yourself a nice back wall to put your amp. Make sure none of the guitar speakers are pointed at your amp. Make sure that you have a little distance between you and your amp and that a cab is pointing towards your ears. So much for you.

Now comes the hard part. Convince the two guitards that they need to switch places.
I had one standing room left (let's call him lefty) and one standing room right (righty). Both were playing right in front of their amps.
Now what I convinced them that lefty and righty swap positions, but leave their amps be. Now Lefty stands right beside (not in front of) Righty's amp, while Lefty's amp is pointed at Lefty across the room and he's right in the beam of his speakers while Righty stands beside Lefty's amp, right in the beam of Righty's speakers.
Now Lefty has his amp turned up so all he can hear is his guitar, at least at the point he's standing and Righty does the same. Only their amps sound a lot less loud in the rest of the room where the drummer and me can play like grown ups. I'm still wearing hearing protection, though.

 

[Korladis]

Another issue you might be having is if the rehearsal space is small the guitarist will win everytime. Bass frequencies especially lower frequencies need space to develop. If your ears are ringing from it being too loud, so will your audience. Its not worth hearing loss. I would tell them to turn down, I like my hearing or I would pack up and ship out. Good luck

This myth has been debunked many times. If it was true, headphones wouldn't work.

the OP is only playing at a max of about 250 watts, and i've never played in a hard rock, punk or metal band where that's enough.

I use a 180 watt amp for doom metal, but it's overdriven basically all the time. So it's really putting out more than that. Plus it's tube, so it compresses as it overdrives, making it sound louder than it is. And with one of my bands I spike the mids.

Only 250 watts solid state would be chancey with a loud metal band. Especially scooping mids.

 

[klokker]

The volume pissing matches never end. If you get another amp/cab, they'll just buy more stuff. It never ends well.

Sounds like you are ready to exit regardless of volume. I say power through until the gig is done, then respectfully leave and find something that makes you happy.

Didn't read the whole thread, but I agree with this. If you find yourself in a band that doesn't want to hear you, or care, I don't see any other option other than moving on.

In my band, if the drummer can't hear me, he is seriously PO'd. It isn't fun to get yelled at, but it's nice that my other bandmates want to hear the bass.

Again, find a band where they actually want to hear you and are willing to adjust accordingly. There are a lot of people who DO get it.

 

[Bassique]

If 250 watts isn't enough for rehearsal, something's wrong. If everyone's overplaying the drummer, something's wrong.

That's true, the drummer's volume should be the main focus in any band practise. I dont actually even mind if I dont hear myself perfectly, its more about the feel and that I can hear the drummer clearly.

 

[toowrongfoo]

Welcome to the desert of the guitarists with no clue ...

Mostly I dealt with drummer with no clue but man when you get guys (any) who are more worried about out dueling each other than making things gell, it's hard to deal with.

Please don't end up like me with crappy tinnitus and a right ear (I was usually on the left of the stage) that is missing a huge chunk of 4k, wear earplugs. It sucks but it's better than the alternative.