700w amp rig can't keep up with guitars.

[Bentfield]

I'm not that knowledgable about amps and stuff. But I find it hard to believe a 700w amp and 4x10 cabinet isn't loud enough.

I play a P bass through a fender blackface Bassman during band practice and I never dial the volume past 3. I play with (in my opinion) a loud drummer and two guitarists and I can hear myself just fine in the mix.

 

[WaynerBass]

Every band that I have been in plays a little loud but when it gets uncomfortably loud, it's often either the idiot drummer is hitting his skins too hard or since theres two guitarists, they're trying to hear their parts over the other guitarist.. quiet often the two do not understand their part in a band scenario..

 

[keyofnight]

I'll echo what a couple of others advised - next practice turn your volume OFF for a few tunes (continue to "play").

if no one notices - start packing up, they don't need you. you need to find something else.

This. A band like this doesn't care much about the bass. I think we all agree that bass exists to be the conduit between the rhythmic and melodic parts of the band. If they can't hear you, and if they don't even notice they can't hear you, then they clearly don't care if you're playing the role you're there to play. They could just get a cardboard cutout of a bassist instead.

OP should do this and tell us how it goes. All in favor, say "Aye!"

 

[mellowinman]

Why would you even consider putting yourself through this torture?

Unless the band is getting $2,500 a night gigs any time soon, you might consider finding a better project, with actual pro guitarists.

 

[chadds]

I'm not that knowledgable about amps and stuff. But I find it hard to believe a 700w amp and 4x10 cabinet isn't loud enough.

I play a P bass through a fender blackface Bassman during band practice and I never dial the volume past 3. I play with (in my opinion) a loud drummer and two guitarists and I can hear myself just fine in the mix.

His band is way too loud. Yours isn't. We live in a time of reasonable volume. In the '60s we bought Showmans because Bassmans weren't loud enough. I respect that you're doing it so nicely. I use an SWR BBII 160w a lot live. Our drummers were trying to be Ginger Baker or Keith Moon. At the same time Motown acts were using the B-15. But we wouldn't have SVTs if 60w was equal to 300w. I can say from experience an Acoustic 360 will drown out two full Marshall stacks drummer etc. when turned up to 8. That's with clear tone.

The OP needs ear plugs and to find another group.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I believe that my bandmates have lost a lot of hearing from playing at loud volumes because the volume keeps going up at practices! I wearing ear plugs about half of the time. I decided after that pain, I am not messing around anymore.

Good for you. Don't mess around with your hearing. I toured for 3-years playing 5-nights a week for 50 weeks a year back in the 70's and we only used a PA for vocals. So amps were often pretty loud and I was standing pretty close to them. Played in a number of groups since then, but not nearly as often as when we were touring. I now wear hearing aids in both ears because my hearing takes a nosedive at right around 3KHz. I've also been told to turn my hearing aids off when rehearsing to avoid further damage.

 

[beaglesandbass]

I'm not that knowledgable about amps and stuff. But I find it hard to believe a 700w amp and 4x10 cabinet isn't loud enough.

I play a P bass through a fender blackface Bassman during band practice and I never dial the volume past 3. I play with (in my opinion) a loud drummer and two guitarists and I can hear myself just fine in the mix.

He's not getting anywhere close to 700w with that setup

 

[xnewyorka]

I'm late to this thread and didn't read most of it. My one comment is:
For your safety and the preservation of one of your most valuable assets, you need to ALWAYS wear earplugs, not just sometimes.

 

[codycon96]

He's not getting anywhere close to 700w with that setup

As someone who straight up has that rig, I bought another 4x10 to make more of a sonic impact. It's definitely the best way to handle this.

 

[njones89]

I personally don't want to upgrade my equipment. One 410 should be loud enough for every situation, given that at the bigger shows, it should be mic'ed or DI. I would only get another amp and cab for running a dirty channel separate. My amp may be putting out only ~250 watts but all by itself it is very loud to me. When it's just me and the drummer, it's a pretty good mix. It will probably be better with boosted mids. The guitar stuff is too loud though. My girlfriend told me recently she can't hear anything over the lead guitar and the vocal screams anyway - even the drums. I thought it must be different live because the stage mix is better. Now I am thinking it's probably because the Mesa/5150 stack is not pointed in my general direction and the show PA/monitors overpower the Bugera... and because it's a larger room.

Now that I am in my office where it is quiet, I am noticing some high pitched tinnitus and probably some hearing loss in my right ear. I made an appointment with my doctor to talk about an audiology referral. I am getting tired of this band, and it has become a health issue. It is not going in the direction that was advertised to me when I joined up. I want to be doing prog/alt rock because I dig Tool and Deftones. It is more like nu-metal or metal-core with thrashy roots. I definitely feel like I'm not being heard and that I am not contributing much. I feel like a low-end support or accompaniment - I have tried to explain this. In a new song we wrote, I have a part where I get to do a little solo/lead 2 octaves up with a whammy, but they buried it underneath guitar riffs. They originally wanted to play a harmonizing guitar part on top of it but I argued it would get lost in the mix. They of course disagreed but came up with another part that is softer but still buries it. Might just have to drop the low end out and see if they notice. I will have to be careful about how I do this because there are a couple intros and a bridge where it would be noticeable.

 

[JohnnyChatter]

I have played with the loudest of bands. Yep guitars both playing plexi heads cranked to get tube distortion. It's rock n' roll man. Guitar players are annoying. My advice is to first not stand in front of your amp but across from your amp. There has been times I couldn't here myself because I was standing next to my amp. I usually make my bands set up like we would live. All of us standing in front of our amps in a line. Not blasting each other in the room. Also your head isn't loud enough at 8 ohms. Everyone else is saying it but I know it's not loud enough. I wouldn't even say go to 4 ohms. Go down to 2 ohms with 8 10 inch speakers. Cranking your head as loud as it goes is bad for your head and tone. You go down to 2 ohm you will have the horse power to play with those dudes. It took me years to convince my band check our volumes. If you want to be a solo musician great but a band should be looked at as one unit. What my guitar players are doing concerns me just as much as the drummer and singer. If one of us sounds bad we all sound bad. I also make it a point to listen when they tell me to adjust something. Also it's rock n' roll and no matter how serious you are it's about fun in the end.

 

[njones89]

When I stand further away from my amp... I have an even harder time hearing it.

 

[Lowendtech]

I am annoyed AF at the guitarists in my one band. One just got his first tube amp ever and his tone is garbage. The lows sound dimed. It's a 50w Bugera into some garbage cab. Our other guitarist who is on the other end of the practice room has an EVH 5150iii combo which is also going into an oversized 5150iii 412 cab with excessive gain. They are playing really loud. I had pain in my ear at the last practice and my ears rang for days. I started using ear plugs because they will not turn down. Another problem is that my rig can't keep up and I have trouble hearing myself. I have a Peavey Firebass 700w and a GK neo 410 (8 ohm) stacked on an older acoustic cab. The Acoustic is not being used because of faulty jacks on the back. When I do use both, there is little perceivable difference in volume.

Lows are at 2 o clock, mids are at 11 o clock, highs are at 3 o clock. Contour is dialed up all the way. The active input setting is off, speaker protection is on, I am using a compressor. Sound only cuts when I use overdrive. My cab appears to be clipping with a clean sound with gain at 10 o clock and master dimed. Help!

All else fails, I will just get vengeful and direct into PA with full volume, both cabs. Seriously, the practice mix is so bad, I hardly hear the drums or vocals. It's just guitar distortion, mostly the EVH one.

I did not read the thread after your initial post so apologies if this has been covered.
Put your cab on the floor if your not using the bottom one or plug the bottom one in.
Un-dime the contour. Your losing all your mids and your ability to cut through.
Bring a nine iron to jam and bust in half of your guitarists speakers.
Quit and go find some mature musical people to play with. If you stay, it's your problem. Get some good old fashioned "FU I'm outa here" on.
Or start saving for some good hearing aids.

Again sorry for not reading the whole thread. But I have no patience for people that have limited intelligence (your guitarists that is).

 

[bass71]

Guitarists need to turn down bass, you need to turn up mids.

This..nothing worse than a loud guitarist diming his bass control, specially on a Marshall stack with a Les Paul..yuch!!!..been there and I walked.

 

[swafran]

All good advice gear-wise, but if the guitar players are too loud, won't cooperate, you hate their tone, and you're mad at them... there are lots of different kinds of musicians to meet out there...

 

[obimark]

Why would you even consider putting yourself through this torture?

Unless the band is getting $2,500 a night gigs any time soon, you might consider finding a better project, with actual pro guitarists.

This. I can tell you for a fact these bozos arent listening to a note you are playing.

 

[honeyiscool]

I personally don't want to upgrade my equipment. One 410 should be loud enough for every situation, given that at the bigger shows, it should be mic'ed or DI. I would only get another amp and cab for running a dirty channel separate. My amp may be putting out only ~250 watts but all by itself it is very loud to me. When it's just me and the drummer, it's a pretty good mix. It will probably be better with boosted mids. The guitar stuff is too loud though. My girlfriend told me recently she can't hear anything over the lead guitar and the vocal screams anyway - even the drums. I thought it must be different live because the stage mix is better. Now I am thinking it's probably because the Mesa/5150 stack is not pointed in my general direction and the show PA/monitors overpower the Bugera... and because it's a larger room.

Now that I am in my office where it is quiet, I am noticing some high pitched tinnitus and probably some hearing loss in my right ear. I made an appointment with my doctor to talk about an audiology referral. I am getting tired of this band, and it has become a health issue. It is not going in the direction that was advertised to me when I joined up. I want to be doing prog/alt rock because I dig Tool and Deftones. It is more like nu-metal or metal-core with thrashy roots. I definitely feel like I'm not being heard and that I am not contributing much. I feel like a low-end support or accompaniment - I have tried to explain this. In a new song we wrote, I have a part where I get to do a little solo/lead 2 octaves up with a whammy, but they buried it underneath guitar riffs. They originally wanted to play a harmonizing guitar part on top of it but I argued it would get lost in the mix. They of course disagreed but came up with another part that is softer but still buries it. Might just have to drop the low end out and see if they notice. I will have to be careful about how I do this because there are a couple intros and a bridge where it would be noticeable.

I think you're being reasonable. Your guitarists are of an unfortunately all too common species of musician, who is more concerned about the art of playing than the art of listening to the music that one happens to be playing. This isn't just a guitar thing, the same can be said about many drummers, singers, bassists, too. So many musicians can't take a step back and hear the entire product and ask themselves, "Am I the kind of musician that I would want in my band?" "Am I creating music that I would want to listen to if I weren't playing it?" It's too much about, "What am I playing?" "What's my sound?" "How do I make my sound that I think I want to be making?" It's too much first person, not enough evaluating yourself as a listener and a fan.

 

[selowitch]

I think you're being reasonable. Your guitarists are of an unfortunately all too common species of musician, who is more concerned about the art of playing than the art of listening to the music that one happens to be playing. This isn't just a guitar thing, the same can be said about many drummers, singers, bassists, too. So many musicians can't take a step back and hear the entire product and ask themselves, "Am I the kind of musician that I would want in my band?" "Am I creating music that I would want to listen to if I weren't playing it?" It's too much about, "What am I playing?" "What's my sound?" "How do I make my sound that I think I want to be making?" It's too much first person, not enough evaluating yourself as a listener and a fan.

We are all guilty of this to some extent.

 

[Stumbo]

This. I can tell you for a fact these bozos arent listening to a note you are playing.

Yeah, they can't hear you, no one can, not even yourself.

 

[TheReceder]

I personally don't want to upgrade my equipment. One 410 should be loud enough for every situation, given that at the bigger shows, it should be mic'ed or DI. I would only get another amp and cab for running a dirty channel separate. My amp may be putting out only ~250 watts but all by itself it is very loud to me. When it's just me and the drummer, it's a pretty good mix. It will probably be better with boosted mids. The guitar stuff is too loud though. My girlfriend told me recently she can't hear anything over the lead guitar and the vocal screams anyway - even the drums. I thought it must be different live because the stage mix is better. Now I am thinking it's probably because the Mesa/5150 stack is not pointed in my general direction and the show PA/monitors overpower the Bugera... and because it's a larger room.

Now that I am in my office where it is quiet, I am noticing some high pitched tinnitus and probably some hearing loss in my right ear. I made an appointment with my doctor to talk about an audiology referral. I am getting tired of this band, and it has become a health issue. It is not going in the direction that was advertised to me when I joined up. I want to be doing prog/alt rock because I dig Tool and Deftones. It is more like nu-metal or metal-core with thrashy roots. I definitely feel like I'm not being heard and that I am not contributing much. I feel like a low-end support or accompaniment - I have tried to explain this. In a new song we wrote, I have a part where I get to do a little solo/lead 2 octaves up with a whammy, but they buried it underneath guitar riffs. They originally wanted to play a harmonizing guitar part on top of it but I argued it would get lost in the mix. They of course disagreed but came up with another part that is softer but still buries it. Might just have to drop the low end out and see if they notice. I will have to be careful about how I do this because there are a couple intros and a bridge where it would be noticeable.

I think you know what needs to happen. I think most of the TB responses are to take care of yourself. Tinnitus sucks bad for musicians. Especially when you just want to go to sleep and you've got that irritating ringing in your ears. No matter what, post a follow up later. My bet is most of us would like to find out things turned out good for you. The sad thing, I know the area you're at is tough to find quality people. I was West River for a while and there was nothing there.