Somehow, of all the terrible stories I've seen this year, this one hits the hardest. Dick move firefighters, dick move.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
$75 or we'll let your house burn down
- Thread starter capnsandwich
- Start date
What about county or township governments? A sheriff is a county policeman and townships around here have their own police departments. I wonder if they would come out to a call if you didn't pay a fee if you were doing something illegal.
maybe so.....we have lots of people here that pay no taxes but the ambulance still comes every time they pass out drunk in an alley....some services have to go beyond the toll gate mentality
sad to say, but that's the truth
I would have loved for a couple of those firefighters (at least) to grab ahold of their bawlz and do something. But we can't expect that kind of behavior. Probably more scared for their job security than anything else.
6jase5
Mammogram is down but I'm working manually
Everyone who suggested that they should have just billed him for the cost......what makes you think that he would pay that bill if he didn't pay the $75?
If he was never billed or this was someone 'new' to the neighborhood, my attitude would be 100% different.
"Hi, it's $75 for us to protect your house and fight a fire should one break out on your property. Here is the bill. Would you like to pay for this service?
"No."
"Ok, please don't bother calling us."
Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
If he was never billed or this was someone 'new' to the neighborhood, my attitude would be 100% different.
"Hi, it's $75 for us to protect your house and fight a fire should one break out on your property. Here is the bill. Would you like to pay for this service?
"No."
"Ok, please don't bother calling us."
Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
You pay county taxes to fund the Sheriff's Department in your county, but not Police Departments, which is why when you ride around in the country you only see Sheriff's Deputies, not Police Officers.
So if you needed to get a law enforcement officer out to your house if you lived in Odin county, or wherever he lives, it'd be the Odin County Sheriff's Department, not the Police Department. Fire Departments are run by the City, not the County.
Point understood. That's how it works here as well.
Not in this state. Here in my town there are 2 FD's One is the City of Sunbury's and one is Delaware County's. I guess it just depends on the state or county but Delaware County, where I live, is a pretty rich community so that might have something to do with it.
There is so much FAIL on the part of the homeowner in this story.
1) He doesn't pay the $75.00 fee to the neighboring township to provide fire service.
2) He doesn't carry enough insurance to cover his house & belongings.
3) (This is the worst part) He doesn't have the guts to save his own animals!
While the call was being made someone should have been making sure everyone including the animals were safe.
How many pet owners would stand by and wait for the fire truck to even get to your house with out doing everything you can to save your pets? I know that NOTHING would stop my wife if her cat was in there & nothing would stop us to save the dog.
4) Fire to close to the house......
1) He doesn't pay the $75.00 fee to the neighboring township to provide fire service.
2) He doesn't carry enough insurance to cover his house & belongings.
3) (This is the worst part) He doesn't have the guts to save his own animals!
While the call was being made someone should have been making sure everyone including the animals were safe.
How many pet owners would stand by and wait for the fire truck to even get to your house with out doing everything you can to save your pets? I know that NOTHING would stop my wife if her cat was in there & nothing would stop us to save the dog.
4) Fire to close to the house......
Agreed. It's still not clear to me exactly how the county/city/FD are connected or not in this case. But there should be some way to fold this fee into the tax scheme.
An opt-in system for fire service seems stupid and risky for all concerned. Even if you take the "tough crap" view for this guy's situation, fires can easily rage out of control and wipe out the adjoining property of someone who did pay the fee before the FD is able to put it out.
At that point, he can be billed for services rendered. If need be, collection agencies can get involved, his credit can be screwed, etc.
There are many volunteer fire departments in the outlying areas surrounding my city that are not paid for with tax money. They are paid for by the residents of the area that they serve. If everyone waited until a fire started to pay their fee there would not be a VFD waiting to put the fire out.
Another thing to keep in mind it that the funding and support available to the VFD determines the quality of help than can be provided by the firefighters. Your insurance rates are also affected by the quality of fire protection in your are. I have friends who pay several thousand dollars a year more for home insurance than the neighbors across the highway because they are in the coverage areas of a lower rated VFD. IMO it was part of his responsibility to the community to help support the services that benefit everyone.
If he really went 18 years without paying then he made a choice to gamble his belongings and continued to make that choice over a long period of time. If you wanted you could make an argument that by not having fire coverage he put his neighbor's house in jeopardy by his poor choice. If the neighbor's house burns down because of this who gets the blame then? The fire department or city that are following the regulations as written, the neighbor who is following the regulations as written or the guy who chose not to take advantage of available fire service?
That being said I agree that this is terrible, and I also think that given the choice most firefighters, including those involved, would have willingly stepped up to fight the fire. I think the right answer is to put out the fire and charge the man all outstanding fees plus a sizable penalty payment to help deter others from making the same mistake. Obviously this decision was made by some ass who has no real connection to the situation. I find it hard to believe that even the most jaded and callous person could actually stand and watch a man's life burn down and choose not to help. I also think that if someone was trapped in the house that the fire department would have been there. Needless to say, fair or not, I think the city will probably have to take a look at their policies now and make changes.
Another thing to keep in mind it that the funding and support available to the VFD determines the quality of help than can be provided by the firefighters. Your insurance rates are also affected by the quality of fire protection in your are. I have friends who pay several thousand dollars a year more for home insurance than the neighbors across the highway because they are in the coverage areas of a lower rated VFD. IMO it was part of his responsibility to the community to help support the services that benefit everyone.
If he really went 18 years without paying then he made a choice to gamble his belongings and continued to make that choice over a long period of time. If you wanted you could make an argument that by not having fire coverage he put his neighbor's house in jeopardy by his poor choice. If the neighbor's house burns down because of this who gets the blame then? The fire department or city that are following the regulations as written, the neighbor who is following the regulations as written or the guy who chose not to take advantage of available fire service?
That being said I agree that this is terrible, and I also think that given the choice most firefighters, including those involved, would have willingly stepped up to fight the fire. I think the right answer is to put out the fire and charge the man all outstanding fees plus a sizable penalty payment to help deter others from making the same mistake. Obviously this decision was made by some ass who has no real connection to the situation. I find it hard to believe that even the most jaded and callous person could actually stand and watch a man's life burn down and choose not to help. I also think that if someone was trapped in the house that the fire department would have been there. Needless to say, fair or not, I think the city will probably have to take a look at their policies now and make changes.
Yes, stupid should hurt - but in proportion to the stupidity.
I mean "Tapout" shirts are stupid, but I wouldn't condone the death penalty for wearing one.
..but they usually do take AN oath.
"I promise concern for others. A willingness to help all those in need.
I promise courage - courage to face and conquer my fears. Courage to share and endure the ordeal of those who need me.
I promise strength - strength of heart to bear whatever burdens might be placed upon me. Strength of body to deliver to safety all those placed within my care.
I promise the wisdom to lead, the compassion to comfort, and the love to serve unselfishly whenever I am called."
Things like that are pretty common, and often include moral clauses about things like "helping those in need".
perhaps your stance should be based on an individual Dbag/tapout basis. Some offenses are worse than others.
But he didn't have enough insurance to cover his property. He never would be able to pay for the fire services. With this guys record, I don't think he cares about his credit. If he has any.
I've just got back from work, he didn't pay his contribution for the service for 18 years? Pffffff he took his chances and lost I'm afraid, he was fully aware of the consequences, that is just bloodymindedness at the cost of his house and unfortunately his animals, it's tragic, but he was not unaware and knew the risk. The animals should not have been allowed to die, that should have been stopped by extinguishing that fire regardless, but 18 years of refusal and risk?, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work out that may cost you in some way down the line. I sympathise, it's a sad tale, but I can't back the bloodymindedness on his part.
Correct.
Indeterminate.
Does he work in that community and pay a local income tax?
Do any of his county taxes trickle down to that local community?
Do states partially fund education/fire/police protection in local communities through state tax dollars?
Does that fire department have any equipment/buildings funded by federal dollars (lots of money from the stimulus package went to local fire departments)?
Does the department have any firefighters hired under the "Assistance to Firefighters Grant program" run by the Dpet. of Homeland Security?
Etc., etc.
With respect to states responsibility - it varies strongly from state to state... and almost all local fire departments are getting some state and federal money.
Here, it's simple.
The Fire Dept offers a service to those that live outside of their jurisdiction and who don't have access to a fire dept. For this service there is a fee of $75. Let's say there's 100 homes outside of there jurisdiction. They would collect $7,500. That $7,500 goes to the maintenance of the equipment required to service this area.
Now let's say, everyone 'forgot' to pay for the fee. Where are the funds going to come from for personnel and equip maint? Oh, they can pay if their house is burning. So if there's only 4 fires in the outside area in that given year, the FD collects $300 instead of the $7,500 it could use to maintain the equip and have the personnel ready. Who is going to makeup the shortfall?
This is nothing new - By the 1700s, independent volunteer fire companies began receiving payment for their services from the insurance company or the property owner. Property owners displayed fire markers outside the building to indicate that they were insured.
from https://lakesideazfire.com/Fire_Service_History_9LGS.html
He knew the risk and took the gamble. If I were him and refused to pay, I would make sure to have a nice water supply and a good pump so I could DIY the firefighting.
Fire departments have a limited capacity and are sized by the area they intend to service. Anything outside of this limit will have a cost.
The Fire Dept offers a service to those that live outside of their jurisdiction and who don't have access to a fire dept. For this service there is a fee of $75. Let's say there's 100 homes outside of there jurisdiction. They would collect $7,500. That $7,500 goes to the maintenance of the equipment required to service this area.
Now let's say, everyone 'forgot' to pay for the fee. Where are the funds going to come from for personnel and equip maint? Oh, they can pay if their house is burning. So if there's only 4 fires in the outside area in that given year, the FD collects $300 instead of the $7,500 it could use to maintain the equip and have the personnel ready. Who is going to makeup the shortfall?
This is nothing new - By the 1700s, independent volunteer fire companies began receiving payment for their services from the insurance company or the property owner. Property owners displayed fire markers outside the building to indicate that they were insured.
from https://lakesideazfire.com/Fire_Service_History_9LGS.html
He knew the risk and took the gamble. If I were him and refused to pay, I would make sure to have a nice water supply and a good pump so I could DIY the firefighting.
Fire departments have a limited capacity and are sized by the area they intend to service. Anything outside of this limit will have a cost.
To the guy who posted "as a firefighter this makes me sick" (sic) you shouldn't compare those POS wreck chasers to professional firefighters. A professional firefighter wouldn't stand idly by and allow any loss of life or property...period
