A bummer

[MultiScaleMale]

What he's showing you to do with resting your thumb is the "floating thumb" technique. With a four string, you can get away with not doing it, but it will make your transition to a five string much faster should you choose to go down that road. In order to advance past where you are now, you have to get the right technique down. Initially it will mean that your brain is learning new connections and you will start out worse than the "wrong" way you've been doing things. But one day you'll play something and realize how much easier it is or smoother and begin advancing from there. The reason he's using a slow tempo on the metronome is that it's more difficult to hide sloppy technique and you have to play more precisely with slower tempos.

 

[mrcbass]

As has been said, many of us are self taught. Those of us who just find ways to get things done often develop habits that could be considered bad. I don't think anchoring on the pickup is necessarily bad (this is the technique I use as well and it has worked for decades), but there are benefits to a floating thumb approach.

But if you don't want to convert your picking style, then work with the teacher. Assuming this is a private arrangement (not school based instruction), then you should be able to get what you need out of your lessons. "I'm happy with my plucking method. Please help me with my slap technique and theory." If that teacher is not flexible enough to work with you then find another teacher.

I'm not saying you should ignore him and in fact if you're not in a band situation where it is important that you don't lose momentum, I would recommend that you let him teach you better ways of doing things. If you can't afford to step back, then get what you need from him. There are a couple of things that I'm trying to improve (floating thumb technique is one of them) but it's so hard to tear down something that mostly works and flail for a month or so, while trying to maintain performance level chops.

If you decide to let him guide you, it will be emotionally painful for a while, as your skills seem to erode while making the transition. Be patient and do the work. Taking golf lessons after you've been playing for a while can really wreck your game for a while, but in the long run you see improvement. No different in music, if you didn't learn correctly.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

You can go only so far with flawed technique. Your instructor is teaching you the basics. It may be a bummer right now, but in the long run, you will be able to go further with good technique. Bad technique really hampers your ability to do they really complex things.

 

[Wfrance3]

Your in a good spot. I'm 52 and would take any pointer anyone had that made sense to me. I had the world's carpiest bass instructor ever... Me.
I have gotten actual, legit, good instruction before, but the bulk of what I know I learned from myself, books and youtube. - Here's one good thing that will make learning good technique feel more worth it. One day you will be my age and older. As years wear on correct technique will save you from hand, wrist, and back fatigue like nobody's business! Playing with the best possible ergonomics (do people still use that word???) is better in the long run. Also, it is almost easier and more comfortable/efficient. Economy of motion and all that....

Good luck. I'm with you on the bummer part. Nothing like having to un-learn what you have spent so much time learning. - If it makes you feel any better, I spent most of the 90s thinking that 4 tsp= 1 Tbsp.... (it's actually 3)....

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I got a bass guitar for my 18th birthday with no thought of ever learning to play one. Not that I was ever against it, but it had just never occurred to me to learn. Anyhoo, I fell in love with it. I spent several years teaching myself, learning to play punk, ska, and reggae lines and did alright with it. Then I moved abroad and rarely played for four years. I'm 29 now and taken a new job in Bangkok, Thailand and when I moved here a year ago I was bound and determined to pick the instrument back up because I missed it so much. Bought a cheap bass and amp and started teaching myself again. Learning slapping and popping, strumming, and a wider range of genres with particular attention given to funk and more intricate finger styles. When I felt I had outgrown the bass I bought, I bit the bullet and bought the apple of my eye, a brand new Fender American Pro Jazz bass in sonic gray. It is easily, far and away, my most prized possession. I finally hit a point where I felt like I was trying to learn things that I simply couldn't teach myself and that my knowledge of theory needed to improve greatly. So, I sought out a bass instructor. And I found one. He is very good, very knowledgeable, and has been playing bass forever. And he is a very nice guy.

Here comes the bummer.

He takes one look at the way I play and pushes me straight back to square one. I'm learning arpeggios and scales, a new finger plucking technique (I was originally taught to always leave my thumb on the pickup), which requires me to rest my thumb on the e-string and drop to the a-string when going higher. I'm tasked with playing along to a metronome at 60-70 bpm while thumping out major, minor, diminishing, and augmented scales and arpeggios. My slap technique (self taught) is heavy-handed and I have an issue with pulling the string, rather than popping/plucking it (to be fair, this was something I knew needed to be corrected as it often causes me to miss the string/pop altogether and leaves me frustrated). Thus, my slapping/popping, too, is reduced to slow, muted thumps and pops at about 70 bpm.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here. Maybe I just need to vent and see it on a page. Just sucks when I felt I was making progress learning fun, complex bass lines played by Flea and toying with/attempting John The Fisherman by Primus and now I'm back to what feels like the most beginner of beginner bass levels.

The caveat to all this is that I still possess a burning desire to be very good at the instrument and I love it.

Anyone ever been there? Any advice?

Well, my technique has been crap for the last 53 years I've been a bassist. It hasn't kept me from working however. What you need to concentrate on is being a good musician, do the job, and work with what you got.

Frankly, if this were me, I would have told the instructor to take a flying leap, but see if you can just work with him on your slap. I kind of have a feeling you don't have much issues with anything else. BTW, are you working with a band or with other musicians? Hands down, that is the best way to get your chops right. Best wishes.

 

[red_rhino]

The caveat to all this is that I still possess a burning desire to be very good at the instrument and I love it.

That right there should tell you that you're doing fine, and that you're easily derailed by "setbacks". Stick with it.

As with most self taught players, there are flaws in your technique that usually lead you to a certain level where you will not be able to progress further because of technique.

I had a very similar experience after playing just a few years. An older, more experienced player watched me play and made several adjustments to my technique. It was awkward at first because I had to unlearn some bad habits, and nobody enjoys not being "good" at something. But without that, I would have hit a wall long ago. Probably the best instruction I've ever gotten.

Never been there because I'd have blown out there almost immediately. That's not something a competent instructor would do.

Respectfully, I disagree. A competent instructor should introduce changes to correct bad technique. A bad instructor will do it in a way that denigrates the student; a good instructor knows how to do it in a way that makes it a positive experience. Good communication is the difference between a good instructor, and a bad one.

 

[saabfender]

Respectfully, I disagree. A competent instructor should introduce changes to correct bad technique.

The longer I do this whole bass guitar thing (playing and teaching), the less convinced I am of technique that is objectively bad. To my way of thinking: good results=good technique.

Certainly, you can play in a way that is injurious. I'm not talking about and neither is the OP.

Bass guitar technique isn't codified in some law book somewhere. I'd use my elbow if it sounded good. If your technique accomplishes what you're after musically, who's to say it's bad or wrong? Any of you guys willing to make that statement?

 

[CryingBass]

You are still young, enthusiastic, and devoted. This too shall pass!

Best of luck in your new studies. And post some gig pics when you are able!

 

[Fender_Bender]

I rest my thumb on the E string and leave it there except when playing on the E. I have tried moving the thumb down to the A like you said, but prefer my way (which came from an instruction book btw) . I mute the A string with my pinkie when playing on the G.
My homemade fingerstyle technique was far worse than yours due to a lack of knowledge. It wasn't until I found a book on fingerstyle technique that I realized how far away I was from proper technique. I had a very difficult transition to get it right but eventually it becomes second nature. It'll probably only be a matter of a week or two before you've adjusted over.

 

[Accurmi]

Once again, thanks for the thoughtful replies, everyone. The range of responses is great to hear and each offers something unique to consider. Plus it is great getting in touch with fellow musicians who have dealt with their own setbacks!

The bottom line is, I love playing and the learning process is a blast for me. I think I just needed to process the tough news verbally. I've already begun working on the new techniques he mentioned and can feel them starting to take root. He told me to practice only 30 mins a day, but... well... I can't help myself once I get started 2 hours later, I have to force myself to put it down haha.

Maybe somewhere down the line I can be banging out some Les Claypool riffs

 

[red_rhino]

Bass guitar technique isn't codified in some law book somewhere. I'd use my elbow if it sounded good. If your technique accomplishes what you're after musically, who's to say it's bad or wrong? Any of you guys willing to make that statement?

You're right; it's not codified in a book per se. It's passed from one player to another (sometimes in book form) based upon years of playing experience and a knowledge of what works, what doesn't, and what kinda works but actually doesn't.

An over reliance on anchoring one's thumb to the pickup is a typical new player habit that will likely have to be unlearned or overcome at some point, and OP's instructor is correct to point that out.

If you want to make an argument for artistic expression, that's fine, but we're talking about technique.

 

[BassUrges]

One thing I would encourage you to consider in your learning process is how you learn and how you play. It's sometimes hard to notice this because we each have our own style and may not be aware that others are different.

I see TBers who say they are entirely self-taught, and spent time when young jamming along to the radio, and they then encourage new players to do the same. I, too, took this approach as a teenager, and I was AWFUL at it. I could never find the right note. Ever. It was really discouraging. I did learn to read reasonably well back then, but without a chart, I couldn't do a thing. Not being able to afford lessons and finding myself hopeless, I literally put my bass away for 20 years, picking it up again when my children were old enough to start getting them into music.

For me, learning scales and arpeggios and a bit of theory and song structure made all the difference. I wouldn't say I can just jam along with a random song. But if I can listen through and then have some quiet to hum and pluck, I can find the key, and with a little noodling and knowledge of common chord progressions, I can figure out the chords. Then I can take my knowledge of arpeggios and piece together an adequate bass line on maybe the third listen-through. For the moment that is enough for my dive-bar ambitions. But without theory, I wouldn't be able to play anything at all.

When it comes to note-for-note covers, I prefer a proper chart. But since they aren't available most of the time, I am putting effort into ear training. It's a major weakness, but even that is helped along by knowing common intervals so that I can get from note to note more easily.

You may be different from me, and also from others who say they wouldn't tolerate this instructor. But what matters is not that you copy my learning style, but that you figure out what it is that you need most to be the player you want to be.

 

[Accurmi]

my advice would be to sit down and have a nice friendly talk with your bass instructor..and tell him what you really want and how you feel about different things..everyone has a different method..but the end result should always be to have fun and be happy..everyone has their own way of doing things..so..build on that..practice on your own if thats what it takes..and let the music pour from your fingertips..listen with your ears..and the rest should all come together..

Yes, I think next time I go, I will talk with him at the beginning about what sort of styles I would like to learn and what techniques, so I can feel more like I have a set goal which I want to achieve. I certainly see the value in learning proper technique, scales, arpeggios, and theory, but for my personal learning style I need to be able to see the goal. I.E. am I working towards playing similarly to the guys I want to emulate? Am I working towards gaining a set of skills which will allow me to play these sorts of things? This will really help me with regards to practice and progression and how my mind wraps itself around what I'm doing.

The only trouble is the language barrier. My Thai is basically nonexistent and his English is good, but some things do get lost in translation when it comes to very specific concepts.

 

[RedJag]

Here comes the bummer.

He takes one look at the way I play and pushes me straight back to square one.

You owe it to yourself to watch this, even if only the first 20 seconds or so.

 

[Accurmi]

You owe it to yourself to watch this, even if only the first 20 seconds or so.

I quite like this. I also have immense respect for musicians (or anyone learning a complex skill set, for that matter) who are self taught. Personally, I think the best path for me is somewhere in between being self taught and being trained/instructed. I feel that at some point I will be satisfied with what I've gained from the lessons and just continue on my own until I hit another plateau.

I have no desire to be an overly technical musician and all that comes with it. Jazz, at least at this point in my life, doesn't strike me as anything I want to play. I want to be able to groove like some of my favorites: Flea, Les, Stanley Clarke, Bootsy... very original of me, I know

As someone mentioned before, it seems useful to learn all of the rules, so when/if the time comes I can break them effectively and as necessary

 

[Aidenn7]

I felt I knew everything on 4strings roundwound.. I took up 5string tape wound.. Talk about culture shock.. I was a heavy handed player.. This force me to play softly.. And control my overtones.. when I went back.. I started at square one.. Never been taught.. Just learn by listening and watching YouTube
.. Playing with a drummer.. Just do different things to my you better..

 

[Deleted member 261632]

I only took lessons for the proper technique, some bas(s)ic stuff and basic scales. Afterwards, I ventured out on my own. When I feel like it and when I have time, I do tend to follow some basslessons again, but they are very scarse (sp?) and rare.

 

[Robscott]

I got a bass guitar for my 18th birthday with no thought of ever learning to play one. Not that I was ever against it, but it had just never occurred to me to learn. Anyhoo, I fell in love with it. I spent several years teaching myself, learning to play punk, ska, and reggae lines and did alright with it. Then I moved abroad and rarely played for four years. I'm 29 now and taken a new job in Bangkok, Thailand and when I moved here a year ago I was bound and determined to pick the instrument back up because I missed it so much. Bought a cheap bass and amp and started teaching myself again. Learning slapping and popping, strumming, and a wider range of genres with particular attention given to funk and more intricate finger styles. When I felt I had outgrown the bass I bought, I bit the bullet and bought the apple of my eye, a brand new Fender American Pro Jazz bass in sonic gray. It is easily, far and away, my most prized possession. I finally hit a point where I felt like I was trying to learn things that I simply couldn't teach myself and that my knowledge of theory needed to improve greatly. So, I sought out a bass instructor. And I found one. He is very good, very knowledgeable, and has been playing bass forever. And he is a very nice guy.

Here comes the bummer.

He takes one look at the way I play and pushes me straight back to square one. I'm learning arpeggios and scales, a new finger plucking technique (I was originally taught to always leave my thumb on the pickup), which requires me to rest my thumb on the e-string and drop to the a-string when going higher. I'm tasked with playing along to a metronome at 60-70 bpm while thumping out major, minor, diminishing, and augmented scales and arpeggios. My slap technique (self taught) is heavy-handed and I have an issue with pulling the string, rather than popping/plucking it (to be fair, this was something I knew needed to be corrected as it often causes me to miss the string/pop altogether and leaves me frustrated). Thus, my slapping/popping, too, is reduced to slow, muted thumps and pops at about 70 bpm.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here. Maybe I just need to vent and see it on a page. Just sucks when I felt I was making progress learning fun, complex bass lines played by Flea and toying with/attempting John The Fisherman by Primus and now I'm back to what feels like the most beginner of beginner bass levels.

The caveat to all this is that I still possess a burning desire to be very good at the instrument and I love it.

Anyone ever been there? Any advice?

TBH stopping in your tracks and going back to a new "start" is probably the most progress you have ever made even though it feels like the opposite. Stick with what you are being taught and you will be amazed how quickly that "I can't do this" feeling goes away, and in not many weeks you will be past where you thought you was before and flying. Don't be tempted to go back to the old ways, do it like he says, you won't regret it. I did the same thing and laugh about it now (still a c**p player but that's just me) Good luck with it

 

[Robscott]

I can't really see where "the bummer" is. You got a bass teacher and now, because he is not teaching you what you expected, you regard it as a bummer. From what you describe, he seems to be on the right track, especially with regards to not resting the thumb on the pick up. This can cause injury problems in the long term, so you'll thank him in time.

You say.... "I still possess a burning desire to be very good at the instrument and I love it.." In that case my advice is to let your teacher guide you towards that goal. He seems to have got you off to a good start already.

also on a more practical level, if you get a new bass with the pup in a different position you're screwed

 

[Robscott]

As has been said, many of us are self taught. Those of us who just find ways to get things done often develop habits that could be considered bad. I don't think anchoring on the pickup is necessarily bad (this is the technique I use as well and it has worked for decades), but there are benefits to a floating thumb approach.

But if you don't want to convert your picking style, then work with the teacher. Assuming this is a private arrangement (not school based instruction), then you should be able to get what you need out of your lessons. "I'm happy with my plucking method. Please help me with my slap technique and theory." If that teacher is not flexible enough to work with you then find another teacher.

I'm not saying you should ignore him and in fact if you're not in a band situation where it is important that you don't lose momentum, I would recommend that you let him teach you better ways of doing things. If you can't afford to step back, then get what you need from him. There are a couple of things that I'm trying to improve (floating thumb technique is one of them) but it's so hard to tear down something that mostly works and flail for a month or so, while trying to maintain performance level chops.

If you decide to let him guide you, it will be emotionally painful for a while, as your skills seem to erode while making the transition. Be patient and do the work. Taking golf lessons after you've been playing for a while can really wreck your game for a while, but in the long run you see improvement. No different in music, if you didn't learn correctly.

Hey don't even go there with the golf lessons, let's keep it clean on TB ok!