A different take on the tone wood debate.

[TonyP-]

A different take on the tone wood debate.

First off – I want to say that I am in the camp that different wood species makes a tonal difference in instruments.

A good example are the MFDs pickups found in G&Ls, Dimarzio Model Js and for alnico
However -

I feel wood choices make less of difference with stronger pickups that have there own personality. A trait I think you find more with ceramic pickups as compared to alnico, I'm speaking in general terms.Stingray pickups (they are Alnico but have the output).

My thoughts are you going to get more nuances of the different woods with a under wound Alnico pickups.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[jd56hawk]

I own five basses right now...I've owned thirty over the years...but it's something I've yet to consider.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

In order of importance to tone, IMHO, it goes hands, strings, pickups/electronics, anything the string touches (frets, nut, bridge saddle etc), and then wood somewhere after all that. Wood is organic and unpredictable so it just makes sense to me that its effect on tone is also unpredictable.

I've also never made an instrument so my opinion is based on zero evidence and isn't worth getting upset over or even taking seriously.

EDIT: To address the OP, TonyP's point is sensible and intriguing.

 

[David Jayne]

Hmm. Maybe. I'll have to think about that. A bit like my belief that changing light vs heavy bridges may have more of an impact on lightweight basses.

 

[GrapeBass]

Honestly, IMHO and IME, all of the components affect the tone quality but in varying degrees. Some small parts may affect the tone more then some larger parts and vice versa, nothing seems to be quantified thoroughly nor consistently. Arguments abound.

 

[TonyP-]

Honestly, IMHO and IME, all of the components affect the tone quality but in varying degrees.

Agreed...
I think this is good example of when electronics or electronic component (IE pickups) take a 'dominant role' in an instruments sound. I do feel that can vary quite a bit...

Aero pickups are good example of replicating the sound of the instrument itself...I don't know the winding count of these pickups but I'm pretty sure that are not going to be like anything like your average MusicMan pickup or G&L MFD, ect....

 

[bound'n'blocked]

I've always been of the opinion that to truly decide the tone wood debate, all variables except the wood would have to be identical. The pickups would need to be the same...electronics, strings (rounds vs flats, stainless vs some other material, heavy vs light gauge) , body style (mass might have an effect), amp, player.

Build several bodies (jazz style, for example) out of walnut, alder, swamp ash, maple, cocobolo, whatever, and then assemble each using the same neck, bridge, strings, pups, electronics, amp and have the same guy test each to see how they sound different.

Or, I could just be an idiot...

I have a guitar body I bought to use as a test for paint. It is made out of MDF. My son says it would probably sound as good as anything else, but I think if it would, everyone would be building guitars out of MDF and not more expensive woods.

BnB

 

[GrapeBass]

I've always been of the opinion that to truly decide the tone wood debate, all variables except the wood would have to be identical. The pickups would need to be the same...electronics, strings (rounds vs flats, stainless vs some other material, heavy vs light gauge) , body style (mass might have an effect), amp, player.

Build several bodies (jazz style, for example) out of walnut, alder, swamp ash, maple, cocobolo, whatever, and then assemble each using the same neck, bridge, strings, pups, electronics, amp and have the same guy test each to see how they sound different.

Or, I could just be an idiot...

I have a guitar body I bought to use as a test for paint. It is made out of MDF. My son says it would probably sound as good as anything else, but I think if it would, everyone would be building guitars out of MDF and not more expensive woods.

BnB

MDF is extremely heavy, that sucka's gonna weight a ton!

 

[btmpancake]

Interesting; But what if you go out and cut your wood from the same tree on the same day, same amount of curing time (if any), stored in the the same controlled environment, install the same strings, electronics, set-up the same(?) and logically they're suppose to sound, feel and play the same? uh..forget the logic part. Just a thought Out loud while passing by.

 

[Fresh Eddie]

Stingray pickups (they are Alnico but have the output).

Sort of off topic, but not all Stingray pickups are Alnico... they were ceramic for a few years a few years back.

 

[TonyP-]

Sort of off topic, but not all Stingray pickups are Alnico... they were ceramic for a few years a few years back.

Correct, but if I did not say Alinco and Stingray somewhere in there, someone on here would point it out

 

[mongo2]

A lot of things influence tone. The strings originate the tone by how they are plucked and that tone is then influenced by the structural components of the instrument. The pickup is a tranducer/filter that can only work with what the strings give it. If some characteristic of tone doesn't exist in the strings, the pickup can't create it and neither can any preamp, amp or effects box create it.

 

[Leonid Nidis]

I can only agree with the theory.
Take Sire for example,same hardware different wood combos.The ash/maple to alder/rosewood is a like night and day.
On the other hand,someone slapped a Symor Duncan SPB3 on a bass with completely different shape compared to fenders,made of timber fender never used,exotic stuff I cant even spell.
Well this bass sounds like your typical P bass with the same pickups.
Also it is my opinion that once the bass is active all things other than the preamp matter even less.

 

[JW56789]

I've always had the opinion that you build two identical basses, one in basswood and all maple neck, and #2 in all dense African woods, like a Warwick wood recipe, you'd hear a difference.

Once you get to blending into the more usual combinations, it's a crapshoot: Wood is infinitely non-uniform, both in the tree all the way to sawn, aged, carefully stored and built into an instrument.

So for me, on clear or tinted instruments, the look is wonderful, but sonically I've never heard more than a suggestion that this wood or that wood 'made' that particular bass, and I'm quite sure if I tried 10 consecutive serial numbers of the same thing, I'd not hear it again. Wood, sonically, is a roulette wheel in my experience.

 

[chadds]

If your point is that powerful pickups could diminish wood's effect then so can heavily equing your amp. A skilled builder would blend all of the components including wood choice to get a desired sound.

 

[Afc70]

The only debate I see about tone wood seems to be here on Talkbass, in the real bass world, where the shoe leather hits the pavement, master luthiers like Mike Tobias, Roger Sadowsky, Ken Smith, etc..
Fodera, all have been building countless instruments for decades & every one of them can prove undoubtedly that different wood species have different tonal characteristics, & can tailor a customized build with different wood combinations to achieve specific tonal goals. Heck, I've even realized (after owning at least 6 different Ken smiths, that wood drastically influences tone. Same model bass, same brand strings, same pickups/ pre, but different bodied/ fingerboard woods, yield surprisingly different tonal results.
So it's not even a debate for me, but alas- the debate rages on forever on talkbass... .. carry on
Edit: Certainly pickups, pickup position , the player, preamps, and other factors play a big part in tone as well.

 

[rtslinger]

Imho, most of the tone comes from your hands, however I am also of the opinion that the body of the guitar plays a major role for the strength of the vibration of the strings, and the body of the guitar is made of wood, so the wood used to build an electric bass guitar would matter in the over-all tone of the bass. Different woods would produce variations in the vibrations that are secondly transfer to the electronics. So Hands, Wood, than Electronics is my believe.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi Tony

First off – I want to say that I am in the camp that different wood species makes a tonal difference in instruments.

I am with you.

A good example are the MFDs pickups found in G&Ls, Dimarzio Model Js and for alnico
However -

Yeah! A good example! Alnico trees grow faster and MDF wood kills!


What a start!

Hugs!!!!!

I always found that pups have more impact when they are hot!

Take a piezo and put it under the bridge of a cheap bass.

Do the same thing with a bass that is => you can hear what wood can do!

Mod a Squier with the right pup and you will sound like Marcus Million!

And you can even use a Korean plywood Squier (which were better than some others)





greetings

Wise(b)ass

 

[micguy]

I'm a Physicist (studies Acoustics of musical instruments in college) and a bass player, so take my response as being affected by that.

The output of a magnetic pickup comes from the relative motion of the string versus the pickup - if the string moves, the pickup produces an output. If the body moves (the pickup is screwed to the body), the pickup produces an output. If both move, then it matters if they're moving together (lower output) or in opposite directions (more output).

It's obvious that everything on an electric bass moves. When you put a Snark tuner (it's an accelerometer, it senses physical vibrations of a solid body) on your headstock, the reason it works at all is that the headstock is vibrating. So the wood that the bass is made out of does vibrate, and it matters to some degree what it's made out of. The only question is to what degree.

On to the original question...

An underwound pickup has more bandwidth than a hot one one with a lot of turns. This gives it more bandwidth when loaded by the cable capacitance. Does that mean that the wood has more effect? Well, having studied the vibrations of different parts of musical instruments, what you find is that the vibrations of the bigger parts of things (like the body of your bass) are concentrated in a limited bandwidth - mostly low mid and below in the case of a bass guitar. I think you'll find that even the high output/more colored pickup has sufficient bandwidth to capture all (or almost all) of what's going on in the body vibration department.

Yes, the underwound pickup will sound different, but I think the differences in sound between that and an overwound one are more electrical than revealing more acoustical stuff - whatever role the body wood plays is there with both pickups.

 

[LowRick]

Erm... What's the best metal for wood?

Wait... Hold on... I got that wrong....

*grabs whiskey bottle*

Scroll along... There's nothing to see here...