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A good question asked by a student
- Thread starter azureblue
- Start date
If all of your awareness is dedicated to playing (a bass line)
and no awareness to listening (to the whole song / band),
you are likely overplaying.
Yet his lines do nto seem to ruin the presentation fo the song.
Perhaps then, what we call overplaying is really just unmindful playing:
failing to see your line as a part of the musical whole of the song -regardless of howmanynoteshowfast
and no awareness to listening (to the whole song / band),
you are likely overplaying.
I lean toward "less is more", yet Jamerson is my hero, and I have often wondered how much he can be considered overplaying or not leaving space for the vocal melody.
Yet his lines do nto seem to ruin the presentation fo the song.
Perhaps then, what we call overplaying is really just unmindful playing:
failing to see your line as a part of the musical whole of the song -regardless of howmanynoteshowfast
Funny how the subject of what your goals are rarely comes up when this is discussed. But that doesn't stop everyone from having an answer.
To the OP, IMHO there are at least three answers:
We have plenty of followers, we need more leaders in the bass community that aren't afraid to push the envelope.
- If you want to make money in a cover band, you should play close to the original baseline - overplaying would be adding to that baseline
- If you want to authentically replicate a certain style, you need to listen to enough listen to enough people considered masters of that style and emulate them - overplaying would be pretty obvious
- If you want to develop your own style, then don't worry about overplaying. There are tons of examples of revered bass players that many would accuse of overplaying if they weren't famous - Entwistle, Squire, Geddy, Ronnie Lane, Roger Glover, Victor Wooten, etc., etc., etc.
This is the correct answer. ^
There are possibly more correct answers, but I think this one covers most situations.
From what I understand, certain producers, Barry Gordy included, would actively try to reel JJ in. Some would let him off the chain. I'm of the opinion his most tasteful stuff is somewhere in the middle. The tracks he plays on What's Goin on, for instance. Although the beauty of Darling Dear cannot be denied.
I have always thought overplaying was playing over someone else spotlight, could be the singer, guitar or keyboard solo or anyone that is having their turn to shine. As Bass Players we tend to overplay since we do not get a lot of times to shine like other solo instruments and singers. Just my take on it.
I'm probably opening a can of worms here, as I know this can be a sensitive topic. I will never understand this, "if anyone notices you, you are overplaying" mentality. I went to see a friend's band last weekend and the drummer really stood out. He was not flashy at all, or purposefully drawing attention to himself, but he was so rock solid and played everything perfectly with his simple style. Should he screw up and start playing too many fills like many other drummers so no one notices his excellence?
I'm not advocating showboating, but I also don't think anyone should dumb down their playing.
I'm not advocating showboating, but I also don't think anyone should dumb down their playing.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
When you stop adding to the song, and start adding to your ego. It all depends on the song. Not to re-hash a tired subject, but Jamerson could play an extremely simple line, or extremely complex. What he played fit the song.
Overplaying is when what you're playing takes away from the groove or the song.
Being able to tell when you're overplaying comes with time, but it starts with really listening to the rest of the band, not just yourself.
There's a significant number of bandleaders and other types in charge that either gently ask for or totally require that sort of simple and basic accompaniment approach. If it's a paying situation and you don't fit that bill, they will find someone else.
And can I get that drummer's number?
I really like your expression.
Now, how often do you apply/use that "vision" YOURSELF?
P.S. I still remember your "abrupt" notion about my "ONLY BASS-LINE - no melody, no other instruments" riff and your comment about "Your bass-line is FIGHTING the Drums".
But of course, NOTHING PERSONAL.
"But as other musicians went on to use high-tech amps, round-wound strings, and simpler, more repetitive bass lines incorporating new techniques like thumb slapping, Jamerson's style fell out of favor with local producers and he found himself reluctant to try new things. By the 1980s he was unable to get any serious gigs working as a session musician.
James Jamerson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We are in 100% agreement. If someone is paying you, you play what they want, or tell them that you won't be able to accept the job. When I audition for a band, part of the process is to ask them what they expect out of a bass player. I've been in situations where I've been told to play whatever I want and other times been told they expect the bass to sound like the original recording..There's a significant number of bandleaders and other types in charge that either gently ask for or totally require that sort of simple and basic accompaniment approach. If it's a paying situation and you don't fit that bill, they will find someone else.
And can I get that drummer's number?
In my current band, I play pretty close to the original recording, even the originals, where they told me I could change whatever I wanted. I've actually simplified a handful of the baselines that were too busy and they really like that I know when to play simply, or sometimes not play at all. I like to leave a lot of room for the music to breath. It makes it so much more dramatic when you really cut loose.
And no, you can't have his number.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Jamerson's issues were more the strings than the slapping, and the fact that he was a drunk who was not as reliable.
I'm on board with this. It's totally possible to shine super bright on stage and not showboat. I think some players just have poor taste, and that leads to sticking out in a bad way, and that's what a lot of people refer to as overplaying. When, in reality, they are just playing stuff that doesn't fit the aesthetic. I'm always way more impressed by a drummer that can carve a steady tempo, or a bassist that can push and pull, than anything else. Pyrotechnics are impressive, too, but again, I think it's a matter of what's right and when.
This may be urban legend because I wasn't there, but a friend was: Stewart Copeland, came to Detroit once in the 80s for a drum clinic. Everyone expected to be blown away by weird time and lightning fill stuff. He walked to his kit and said: "this is the hardest thing a drummer can do" and proceeded to play a rock solid 4/4 for 30 minutes, no fills. The crowd was mesmerized.
Context is everything. My regular band occasionally plays without the piano player. When he is there I keep it down low and basic, but when he isn't there I move around more to spell out the chords and the changes, as well as to keep the rhythm of the background energized. The stuff I play when he is gone would totally destroy the music in a bad way if he was there, and my regular lines would sound boring and the group would lack energy without the piano.
FWIW the bassist before me in the band was a much better bassist, but he went full Jaco all the time and the band was sick of it. Give them room to breath and think once in a while.
FWIW the bassist before me in the band was a much better bassist, but he went full Jaco all the time and the band was sick of it. Give them room to breath and think once in a while.
- Sep 9, 2007
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That sounds more like Jamerson didn't adapt to the evolving sounds and styles of the times over anything else.
And what @buldog5151bass said too.
We see what we want to see, we hear what we want to hear, etc...
It's a perfect example of our Human Nature and Subjectivity, like that "overplaying" question.
- Sep 9, 2007
- 5,309
- 4,977
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Eventide, GHS Strings, G&L Guitars, NS Design, Tsunami Cables
Not really. From your initial post with the quote from Wikipedia, "Jamerson's style fell out of favor with local producers and he found himself reluctant to try new things."
There's no question: being reluctant to try new things usually results in failing to adapt to the evolving sounds and styles of the times.
Another thing about Jamerson is that by the time he went to LA, almost any session player could imitate him, and also do a more modern sound.
Nobody in the record buying world knew his name so it didn't matter if it was JJ on the track or a bassist that sounded like JJ.
That and he was notoriously unreliable, which is something Barry Gordy put up with back in Detroit when nobody could JJ like JJ could.
Nobody in the record buying world knew his name so it didn't matter if it was JJ on the track or a bassist that sounded like JJ.
That and he was notoriously unreliable, which is something Barry Gordy put up with back in Detroit when nobody could JJ like JJ could.
Per your request, let's "revise" the wiki statement:
"But as other musicians went on to use high-tech amps, round-wound strings, and simpler, more repetitive (the text is visible when highlighted only- WUTP) bass lines incorporating new techniques like thumb slapping, Jamerson's style fell out of favor with local producers and he found himself reluctant to try new things. By the 1980s he was unable to get any serious gigs working as a session musician.
