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A good reason to hate heavy amps
- Thread starter fokof
- Start date
Mr. Foxen
Commercial User
A heavier head likely contains more mass, so it will fall toward the earth faster, potentially resulting in greater damage.
.....to the Earth.
Agreed.
My SVT was dropped from the deck of a bread truck ( ~ 38") and sustained only cosmetic damage to the rack case.
This thing looks like it was dropped from a 2nd story balcony.
True....try dropping a feather and your SVT head at the same time, and your SVT head will hit the floor first......duh!
Do it in a vacuum and they'll fall at the same acceleration and speed. Take wind resistance out of the equation. If you drop a 4-pound Shuttle and an SVT at the same time, they'll both hit the floor at the same time.
Looks like they're easily replaced. All you have to do is hope you don't get the one out of 100,000 that was dropped from a shipping belt because some dopey preloader thought it would fit.I know this all too well. They are a good cheap solution for light weight low vibration situations. NOT this application.
Jimmy, I don't care if 100,000 units survived with them, it is irresponsible use of that fastener. Engineering or common sense wise. I sometimes play Craps or Black Jack, but I know I am gambling then. JM (not so)HO.
Mass and weight are two different things.
The astronauts on the moon had the same mass as they have on Earth, but only one-sixth the weight. That's why one of the astronauts on the moon tripped and fell on his face, because he felt so light but when he put his body in forward motion and then suddenly tried to come to a stop, his body mass kept him moving forward and he fell. He only weighted one-sixth, but the physics of mass in motion doesn't change when gravity changes. Think of a space capsule traveling through space. It weighs nothing because there is no gravity. But it most definitely has mass in motion. If you were in a space suit floating in space remaining at the same location, and that space capsule traveling at 25,000 mph ran into you, you would then understand mass in motion, even though you and the space capsule weighed nothing.
The latter is the case with the Ampeg SVT in this thread. The amp was put into a downward motion, and when it came to a quick stop, the more massive transformer wanted to keep on moving. And it did! The strength of materials of the hardware holding the transformer in place was insufficient to withstand the force. But that hardware was not really designed to withstand that type of force.
If the person who packed the amp would have provided more packing material to absorb the sudden deceleration of the amp, then the hardware holding the transformer may have held. The additional packing material would have slowed the rate of deceleration. That's why, whenever I ship a heavy tube amp, I always make sure there is P-L-E-N-T-Y of packing material between the amp and the box. If you use enough packing material, then even the most gorilla-handed neanderthal (or shipping belt drop) would not be able to damage the amp.
And those who said the feather and the Ampeg would hit the ground at the same time when dropped from the same height in a vacuum are correct! In Earth's atmosphere, it's the wind resistance that slows down the feather. (Wind resistance also slows down the Ampeg, but not nearly as much as the feather.) Weight has nothing to do with it. Weight is a function of the force of gravity. Mass doesn't care about gravity.
Sorry for the physics lecture. I can't help it. I'm a licensed civil engineer.
The astronauts on the moon had the same mass as they have on Earth, but only one-sixth the weight. That's why one of the astronauts on the moon tripped and fell on his face, because he felt so light but when he put his body in forward motion and then suddenly tried to come to a stop, his body mass kept him moving forward and he fell. He only weighted one-sixth, but the physics of mass in motion doesn't change when gravity changes. Think of a space capsule traveling through space. It weighs nothing because there is no gravity. But it most definitely has mass in motion. If you were in a space suit floating in space remaining at the same location, and that space capsule traveling at 25,000 mph ran into you, you would then understand mass in motion, even though you and the space capsule weighed nothing.
The latter is the case with the Ampeg SVT in this thread. The amp was put into a downward motion, and when it came to a quick stop, the more massive transformer wanted to keep on moving. And it did! The strength of materials of the hardware holding the transformer in place was insufficient to withstand the force. But that hardware was not really designed to withstand that type of force.
If the person who packed the amp would have provided more packing material to absorb the sudden deceleration of the amp, then the hardware holding the transformer may have held. The additional packing material would have slowed the rate of deceleration. That's why, whenever I ship a heavy tube amp, I always make sure there is P-L-E-N-T-Y of packing material between the amp and the box. If you use enough packing material, then even the most gorilla-handed neanderthal (or shipping belt drop) would not be able to damage the amp.
And those who said the feather and the Ampeg would hit the ground at the same time when dropped from the same height in a vacuum are correct! In Earth's atmosphere, it's the wind resistance that slows down the feather. (Wind resistance also slows down the Ampeg, but not nearly as much as the feather.) Weight has nothing to do with it. Weight is a function of the force of gravity. Mass doesn't care about gravity.
Sorry for the physics lecture. I can't help it. I'm a licensed civil engineer.
So where do I read the buoyancy of a SVT ???
The mentioned link is a well known stuff to me !
LOL! Maybe this is where the reference "this amp blows all other amps out of the water" comes from! (Whenever I see that comment, I always have to wonder what is up with all of this music gear being kept under water?!!?)
I think he is referring to the wind resistance of the feather. In vector analysis, that would represent the upward force. Buoyancy is also an upward force, but it is something different than wind resistance. Buoyancy is why boats float, because the volume of water that is displaced by the hull has been displaced (or "replaced" if you want to look at it that way) with air, which is less dense than water.
Getting back to the Ampeg, I feel bad for the OP. The key in getting a refund from the delivery company will be in demonstrating adequate packing. If there was adequate packing material, then I think the OP has a good case for reimbursement from the delivery company.
Of course it's Ampeg's fault. Improper packaging, improper packing material, not marked "fragile" etc. As a rule, it is NEVER UPS' fault. This coming from a former warehouse shipping claims/warranty manager
Right it is my fault due to wrong translation,
but it's also a fault referencing a link without any explanations or comments at least.
PEM nuts can work for a rugged application, if...
1. The correct nut is chosen for the application. The ones shown in the picture look like they don't offer any "backup" such as a flanged body. An engineer would notice that as a risk.
2. It's a high quality fastener (PEM is a brand name) and not some crappy knock-off from an unknown supplier.
3. The hole is correctly specified and made.
4. Insertion of the fastener is done with the correct tool and procedure.
5. The mating screw is assembled and torqued correctly.
A failure of anything I've listed would have caused one of those little fasteners to fail.
Note that conventional nuts are not problem free either. But a potential advantage is that you aren't depending on a supplier, such as the transformer maker, to take care of the things that I've listed. A conventional nut also provides a visual indication in the factory, that the whole thing is correctly assembled.
My guess is that a large EI frame transformer is getting to be a pretty uncommon item, and difficult to source with quality in the low cost region countries.
1. The correct nut is chosen for the application. The ones shown in the picture look like they don't offer any "backup" such as a flanged body. An engineer would notice that as a risk.
2. It's a high quality fastener (PEM is a brand name) and not some crappy knock-off from an unknown supplier.
3. The hole is correctly specified and made.
4. Insertion of the fastener is done with the correct tool and procedure.
5. The mating screw is assembled and torqued correctly.
A failure of anything I've listed would have caused one of those little fasteners to fail.
Note that conventional nuts are not problem free either. But a potential advantage is that you aren't depending on a supplier, such as the transformer maker, to take care of the things that I've listed. A conventional nut also provides a visual indication in the factory, that the whole thing is correctly assembled.
My guess is that a large EI frame transformer is getting to be a pretty uncommon item, and difficult to source with quality in the low cost region countries.
I just noticed that you are in Germany! Wow! That's a long way from here! Hello from across the pond!
Something else I noticed, with those fasteners, if the bottom of the transformer isn't perfectly flat, tightening the screw could break the fastener loose.
6jase5
Mammogram is down but I'm working manually
I'm still not convinced. Let me borrow your little cheapo Walter Woods amp, JimmyM can pony up his 69 SVT and we'll drop it with a feather. I have a really nice vacuum as well...with a HEPA filter.
Energy (moving mass energy) can't be killed to nothing/zero.
I have got no idea if it becomes important when the svt would only be half of the weight by same proportions.
I don't think it would take a significant difference for the velocity just before impact. But sometimes +30% of energy cause the mechanical damage (like the sinking of the Titanic).
