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A question for those old enough to remember when "Eleanor Rigby" came out

This is a dichotomy that really didn't occur back then. Classical and rock musicians used the same new technologies. It was new to all and all instruments could be usqed.

At the time the Beatles released Eleanor Rigby, contemporary musicians released this :


New York Philarmonic :


'Eleanor Rigby' is from 1966 and that Bach concert was from 1969. More to your point though, other bands were using strings before Eleanor Rigby. Someone mentioned the Beach Boys, Motown, and even the Beatles on an earlier song.

As much as I like the Beatles I think their reputation as experimenters is overblown. The real experiments in music were being done, as usual, by people who weren't famous. For example, we have all this experimental electronic music from people like Delia Derbyshire that would never get onto US radio in those days.

What the Beatles did was experiment within the framework of conventional pop music and expose the masses to that.
 
The Beatles' producer, George Martin, was an excellent musician with formal classical training. It would be natural that Lennon and McCartney would want to take advantage of his abilities to arrange strings, brass and other instruments. Additionally, Lennon and McCartney (especially Paul) saw themselves as songwriters, and wanted to write songs that were above and beyond three chord blues progressions. For an example, check out the chords to All My Loving. I would also note that many jazz artists worked with string sections (including Bird). And I was around when the record came out.
 
The song was compelling enough with the George Martin string arrangement no one cared. The thing with the Fab Four is as they grew out of the Hard Day's Night matching suits days, their songs grew in many different directions. After Rubber Soul and then Revolver leading into Seargeant Pepper's, that's a long way from 'Love Me Do' and 'She Loves You'. They owned the world, and had the whole thing been kazoos and penny whistles instead of a string quartet, it would have been cool too, they just had that much weight.

And the times were different, music was far more diversified in the artists and the market and fans were very accepting of all the experimentation going on. That's why later it's hard to simply peg Zeppelin as metal or hard rock, when they would swing from 'When the Levee Breaks' to remakes of English folk music like 'Hangman' or 'The Battle of Evermore'. The Stones worked 'Ruby Tuesday' alongside 'Midnight Rambler', or Exile on Main Street with its' spread of 'All Down the Line', 'Rip This Joint' then 'Sweet Virginia' and 'Let It Loose'. These are just obvious examples.

We valued the artists that dabbled in so many areas instead of plowing the same row over and over. I don't care who the artist(s) is, 12 or 13 tracks of the same thing gets old fast.
Couldn’t have said it better. Plus it was by far not the first time strings were used in pop music. We just figured, hey, The Beatles did yet another classic.
 
Did the strings cause it to be perceived as a throwback to pre-rock instrumentation?

What I mean is, rock replaced/rebelled against/rejected earlier music traditions, and basically stopped using string and horn sections (though the occasional sax would still be used I suppose). Did "whoa, strings" make it seem like the Beatles are suddenly doing the music your parents or grandparents used to listen to, or was it not like that at all?
And so you have the answer, @pklima. You posed a good question and launched a really nice thread here. Good post.
 
Also, The Beatles weren’t some narrowly focused band who never went outside of their comfort zones. They had many precedents previously. By then we had hit songs by them with flutes, harpsichord, country songs, R&B, show tunes, flat out rockers, pop, etc, so it wasn’t as shocking to listeners that they would do yet another unconventional song.
 
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Heard it the week it came out. In those states, I liked a lot of things ( mostly quality stuff ). Groundbreaking for sure. GM was making at statement, and not retro I thinks...
 
I am barely old enough to remember this, and in fact I do not; I was 7. But what I do recall is that my parents' generation really did not like the Beatles at all in the beginning. Once they began to move beyond the "She Loves You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah" stage of songwriting and got more sophisticated in their delivery, my parents and others in their circle began to mellow toward them. I don't think this was a perception of the music moving backwards. It was an appreciation that they could bring more sophistication to the craft than 1-4-5 standard Rock and Roll changes.
 
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According to Geoff Emerick, who was the recording engineer on that session ("Here, There and Everywhere: My Life Recording the Music of The Beatles", pp. 126-28):

There was also a bit bit of stress during the recording of "Eleanor Rigby," though for an entirely different reason. After hearing Paul play this beautiful song on acoustic guitar, George Martin felt that the only accompaniment that was necessary was that of a double string quartet: four violins, two violas, and two cellos. Paul wasn't immediately enamored of the concept--he was afraid of it sounding too cloying, too "Mancini"--but George eventually talked him into it, assuring him he would write a string arrangement that would be suitable.

"Okay, but I want the strings to sound really biting," Paul warned as he signed off on the idea. I took note of what he said and began thinking of how to best accomplish that.

String quartets were traditionally recorded with just one or two microphones, placed high, several feet up in the air so that the sound of the bows scraping couldn't be heard. But with Paul's directive in mind, I decided to close-mic the instruments, which was a new concept. The musicians were horrified! One of them gave me a look of distain, rolled his eyes to the ceiling, and said under his breath, "You can't do that, you know."

His words shook my confidence and made me start to second-guess myself. But I carried on regardless, determined to at least hear what it sounded like.

We did one take with the mics fairly close, then on the next take I decided to get extreme and move the mics in really close--perhaps just an inch or so away from each instrument. It was a fine line; I didn't want to make the musicians so uncomfortable that the couldn't give their best performance, but my job was to achieve what Paul wanted. That was the sound he liked, and so that was the miking we used, despite the string players' unhappiness. To some degree, I could understand why they were so upset; they were scared of playing a bum note, and being under a microscope like that meant that any discrepancy in their playing was going to be magnified. Also, the technical limitations at the time were such that we couldn't easily drop in, so they had to play the whole song correctly from beginning to end every time.

Even without peering through the control room glass, I could hear the sound of the eight musicians sliding their chairs back before every take, so I had to keep going down there and moving the mics back in closer after every take; it was comic, really. In the end, the players did a good job, though they clearly were annoyed, so much so that they declined an invitation to listen to the playback. We didn't really care what they thought, anyway--we were pleased that we had come up with another new sound, which was really a combination of Paul's vision and mine.

It was during the Revolver sessions that I realized I simply couldn't rely on textbook recording techniques in terms of mic positioning and placement. The Beatles were demanding more, so much more, of both me and of the technology. We didn't know it at the time, but we were making tremendous advancements in the recording process.​
 
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Where do these fantasies of what it was like come from? Recorded April 1966, only a very small % of music was played in R&R rhythm trio, maybe sax. Orchestral and band instruments were not of an earlier generation! Beatles started to change that... Very few musicians were in the blues or folk oral tradition (non reading). If you heard Beethoven or Stravinsky string quartets, it was not new or innovative. It was repetitive and simple and melodically evocative so even "musicians" noticed.

I remember hearing serious debates in academia about whether or not the Beatles were good musicians. The grown up consensus was that while they wrote some good melodies, they were just adequate players. The grown up consensus was to go to Viet Nam too.
 
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The strings were very different than the silky, orchestral type of strings common at the time. It was a string quartet type of sound with individual voices from the violins and cello that was almost rough. You could hear the rosin on the bow almost.

This. The strings on 'Eleanor Rigby' sound nothing like the strings on 'My Girl' or whatever. It sounds like a string quartet playing with passion. I believe it was actually an octet, that is, a string quartet but with two first violins, two second violins, two violas and two cellos. Much as the Beatles were geniuses, each of them in their own right, George Martin was too. Also Geoff Emerick (sp.?), the recording engineer.
 
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I was a young teenager then - the differences from today make your op questions kind of not relevant. There were so many great, innovative bands coming along then and so many of them were innovators. To put it in perspective, another "first" that same year was "In the Court of the Crimson King". If you havent heard that before, it'll blow your mind. Also in 1969? First Led Zep album. Tommy. First Santana album. David Bowie. Stones, Let it Bleed. First Allman Brothers album. And the list goes on. There were no boundaries in popular music like there are today, where most everything is so formulaic. It seemed like every few weeks, something new came along that no one had ever heard before. The Beatles were already well-established of course, but were really just starting to show what they were capable of creatively. I often consider myself fortunate to be growing up and getting into music back then. It was such a fertile time.
 
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I just remember thinking the song sounded good to my ears. Didn't think all that much about strings one way or the other. Just knew it was appealing. The Beatles were coming out with all sorts of new sounds at the time - I think of how mind bending Strawberry Fields was on first listen, with its big downward slide after, " ... 'cause I'm going tooo ... " Whoa, what was THAT? :cool: So many textures and sounds from them ...
 
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Did the strings cause it to be perceived as a throwback to pre-rock instrumentation?

What I mean is, rock replaced/rebelled against/rejected earlier music traditions, and basically stopped using string and horn sections (though the occasional sax would still be used I suppose). Did "whoa, strings" make it seem like the Beatles are suddenly doing the music your parents or grandparents used to listen to, or was it not like that at all?

No, the strings in ER was not a throwback to anything anyone alive had listened to when it was current (unless they were 175 years old). The only music in the 20th century that had strings very similar to those in ER was being played by orchestras that were playing classical music from the Baroque period, 1600-1750.

I read somewhere that McCartney wanted something that sounded like music written by the Italian composer Antonio Vivaldi (1675-1741). Vivaldi pre-dates the more well known classical music composers like Beethoven & Mozart.

George Martin was apparently a fan of an American composer, Bernard Hermann, who was alive at the time in the 20th century and had written film scores, the most famous probably being Alfred Hitchcock’s “Psycho”. Martin wrote the music for ER, so maybe it was in Vivaldi style as would be interpreted by Hermann? I’m just guessing now.
 
I was a teenager then and for me it was never about rejecting what had come before. My parents had a lot of good music on 78s that I loved. Les Paul and Mary Ford, The Harry Lime Theme played on zither, Glenn Miller orchestra, Winifred Atwell’s wonderful piano playing and much more. I shun ideology when applied to creative expression. It is a ball and chain.
When rock came along my ears just loved what I was hearing. The Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly, Elvis; just good sounds that spoke to me. Later, the Beatles and the all of the ‘British Invasion’ groups were inspirational and exciting. I was keen to hear whatever they did next. Constraints on instrumentation were not a thing in my world.
 
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