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A question that I couldn't answer (DI box-related)

Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

TalkBass' resident Bongo + cowbell player
Nov 10, 2000
6,935
155
59
Bucaramanga, Colombia, South A
#1
Hi everybody.

I don't know if it happens everywhere, but all soundguys in my town are obsessive about putting a DI box (and the Whirlwind IMP 2 is the only one that seems to exist) between the bass amp and the PA system because "we don't want you to blow our speakers". Whatever the reason is, one of my bandmates asked me a question (after inspecting my MarkBass MoMark amp) that I preferred not to answer: "If a bass amp has a balanced line output, like this one, is still a 'dedicated' DI box necessary?"

I thought of replying "no", but maybe there's some vital detail that I don't know about, so I decided to say "I'm not sure. I'll tell you next time". I really appreciate your input on this subject. Thank you in advance!
 
#2
No, it's not necessary but there are a few factors to consider:

1. the DI on your head can probably be switched between pre-eq and post-eq. Your engineer doesn't like post-eq because the eq settings that make your bass cab sound good often sound terrible through the PA. Also, some bass ampls place the DI after the preamp but before the EQ which imparts a certain coloration to the original bass tone. Using a separate DI box eliminates all the guess work and gives a pre-eq signal to the PA with much less coloration.

2. In general, engineers try not to touch your gear if they don't have to. They don't know if you're hyper sensitive about strangers touching your stuff or if your gear is poorly maintained, but in either case they don't want to be responsible if your gear breaks. DI boxes are simple, damn near bullet proof, and inexpensive to replace compared to an amp.

3. When using an outboard DI like the IMP2, the results are predictable. Sometimes an engineer will go with what he or she knows instead of experimenting with alternate configurations. More often than not this has to do with time constraints, not laziness.

For the record I am not calling this best practice nor do I make any judgements about whether it's universally right, wrong or indifferent. There are too many different bass tones & effects being used today to assume one size fits all. Personally, I like using both a mic and tube DI (phase aligned, of course).
 
#3
Well the DI is always used during live concert and especially to send your sound from your amp/mic to the PA.
One of the reason is because the balanced signal that came from the D.I. convert your high impedance signal in a lower one and it helps to leveling the audio signal, minimize distortion, noise and ground loop and any interference, so this give to the sound engineer a better signal to work.
Well now more or less all the bass amp have a D.i. out and sometimes with pre o post eq (off course if you want send to the sound man you tone with or without the preamp) that should works more than well. In many case a separate DI is preferred becasue the tone, but anyways with the DI in your amp you will be more than fine.
Cheers. Enrico
YouTube
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#4
testing1two said:
...Your engineer doesn't like post-eq because the eq settings that make your bass cab sound good often sound terrible through the PA....Using a separate DI box eliminates all the guess work ...When using an outboard DI like the IMP2, the results are predictable. Sometimes a engineer will go with what he knows instead of experimenting with alternate configurations.
Click to expand...
All true! These are the reasons soundmen always want to hook you up with their own DI box. When they say things like "I don't want you to blow up my speakers" they are just trying to quickly convince you to do it their way, because that's the way they know how to do it with the minimum of effort, trouble, or thought.
 
#5
it's up to you as a bass player to figure out which way to give the best signal to the soundguy (as in the signal that sounds like "you" while still being even and usable out front), then insist on it!

if your amp DI sounds better than a box between the bass and the amp, use it.
 
#6
bongomania said:
All true! These are the reasons soundmen always want to hook you up with their own DI box. When they say things like "I don't want you to blow up my speakers" they are just trying to quickly convince you to do it their way, because that's the way they know how to do it with the minimum of effort, trouble, or thought.
Click to expand...

... then they whip out their Behringer DI and hook you up. That's why I always carry a Radial J48 and JDI with me. However, They've never seemed to have an issue taking the DI out from my Aguilar and Eden heads. It depends on how knowledgeable he is about the quality of particular amps' DIs. One guy wanted to use his with a volume control on it to avoid sending too hot of a signal. That's what we used. I don't fight with 'em ... unless they insist on the Behringer.
 
#7
...and there's nothing that prevents you from sending your line out through their DI.
I never sweat it. I can send whatever I want to send down their preferred form of delivery.
Even a mic'd cabinet can be sent to FOH via a DI if you know what you're doing.
 
#8
Can't count the number of times where using an XLR out was noisy or the premap's noise floor was un-acceptable.
And there are variety of type of output : pre/post/preEQ but post preamp etc.... so the EQing of your bass monitor doesn't always sound good in a full range PA.
I also had good sources too , 98% of the times were from seasoned /experimented players.
 
#10
fokof said:
Can't count the number of times where using an XLR out was noisy or the premap's noise floor was un-acceptable.
And there are variety of type of output : pre/post/preEQ but post preamp etc.... so the EQing of your bass monitor doesn't always sound good in a full range PA.
I also had good sources too , 98% of the times were from seasoned /experimented players.
Click to expand...

Yup. Even a top quality amp can produce a noisy, worthless output at its top quality DI output when the guy running the amp doesn't understand gain stages.

Randy
 
#11
bongomania said:
All true! These are the reasons soundmen always want to hook you up with their own DI box. When they say things like "I don't want you to blow up my speakers" they are just trying to quickly convince you to do it their way, because that's the way they know how to do it with the minimum of effort, trouble, or thought.
Click to expand...
Back when I used DI's with my own gear, I used that as a litmus test to tell whether the soundman is an idiot or a smart person. A smart soundman is going to have his PA limited to begin with, so saying that is either a lie or the soundman's a dope and doesn't have a limiter governing his PA.
 
#12
I like putting a DI between the bass and the amp so that the bass player can tweak volume and EQ to his hearts content, and I don't have to compensate at the board everytime he feels a need to adjust. The bass players I work with are usually inexperienced, if a guy knows what he's doing and has a good amp I'll happily use his amps DI or mic his cabinet (or both). Inexperienced bass players often can't stop touching the knobs of their amp.
 
#13
jimbilly said:
I like putting a DI between the bass and the amp so that the bass player can tweak volume and EQ to his hearts content, and I don't have to compensate at the board everytime he feels a need to adjust. The bass players I work with are usually inexperienced, if a guy knows what he's doing and has a good amp I'll happily use his amps DI or mic his cabinet (or both). Inexperienced bass players often can't stop touching the knobs of their amp.
Click to expand...
Thank you...I'll hold you to it if I'm ever in your neck of the woods and you're on the board ;)
 
#15
if you're gonna shove a box between the bass and the amp, at the very least, look at the signal chain; if there's a boss pedal tuner in front, or if it's an active bass, you'll at least get a clean signal with no loss with a good passive box.

if it's a stock P-bass straight into the amp, try to at least use a nice active box, so you're not loading down the passive pickup and receiving a dull, flat bass tone.
 
#16
jimbilly said;
'I like putting a DI between the bass and the amp so that the bass player can tweak volume and EQ to his hearts content, and I don't have to compensate at the board everytime he feels a need to adjust.'

What if the bass player wants a different sound for a song? Are you going to compensate that out so his desired sound isn't heard in that song?
Guitarists are allowed to jump on all sorts of pedals to change their sound. Why not the bass player?
 

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