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A small dispute over returning a bass

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#41
IMO/IME ... a neck should only take about 24hrs to settle. Most of the time ... I'm able to play the bass that day ... and give it a good set-up after a couple ... then tweak after a few more. (I've bought/sold/traded too many basses over the years to really keep up with).

Also .. if the frets show little wear ... and nice crowning ... chances are, a dressing won't do much to correct the buzz (especially if you have a light touch). Frets are built to take years of use/abuse. I've had basses that could really go for a fret-job ... deep flat spots, etc ... and they played fine with no, to little buzz. Perhaps the string height may need to be just a bit higher ... just a mm. can make a huge difference when dealing with a pesky buzz. Being stuck on an exact string height might make you miss out on a great bass. (heck look at Sting's Fender Precision bass ... the neck is totally out of wack ... but he won't adjust the truss rod because he's afraid it'll destroy the neck ... so he just has it set up the best it can be ... and deals with it).

IMO ... a neck adjustment might be the key. Just because the bow is about where you like it ... doesn't mean it doesn't need a bit of attention. I'd slacken the tention on the rod for a day or two ... then bring it back up to where you like it. Throw a fresh (or semi-fresh) set of strings on her ... and give it another set-up. IF that doesn't work ... then bring it to a pro.


As far as, You and the Seller ... I see both sides. You expected the bass to be "playabe" right out of the box (at most with just a basic set-up) ... and the Seller just wants to keep as much $$ in his pockets. However that is tuff to prove. Since you got a good deal on the bass ... him paying half of the set-up/dressing fees is about the best you're gonna get. I don't expect him to pick up the shipping fees back to you (I know I wouldn't) ... basically, you eating the shipping costs is just apart of doing business on-line ... the ol' "let the buyer beware" is always something to keep in mind ... especially if you didn't purchase it through an eBay auction (due to eBays disclosure rules).

All in all ... if you like the bass enough to deal with all this drama ... Keep it .... if not, send it back to the seller and move on.
 
#42
I guess I might have to post the whole transcript of PMs to disprove some of what he said just now in this thread and in his pm...

At the same time here is the listing... and please notice that his listing was last edited TODAY, even though I received the bass a few days ago. The listing said nothing about buzz on the 8th fret before this morning. Moderators can probably look at previous versions of posts and confirm that.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545553&highlight=

Might as well post a copy of the current ad changed today before it changes again... Too bad it didn't say this before I bought it.

For Sale or For Trade 1979 Music man Sabre. It has been sitting idle for about ten years and deserves a new home where it gets played.
Every screw and part on this bass is original Music Man except I had a replacement neck custom made by John Buscarino in the early eighties. The superior 2 band EQ and pups are original. The neck was a copy of the original that was splitting. The neck is sick Birdseye Maple with a superb Makassar Ebony fretboard and brass nut. The truss rod functions as it should. The frets are in excellent condition showing very little wear and crowned nicely but there is a buzz around the eighth fret, so a fret level and dress is in order (priced accordingly). It's never had one since the neck was built in 83. But it is a 30 year old bass. This bass has checking as would be expected at this age, and all the Mojo that goes with it. It ships in a nice TKL gig bag.
$750 If PayPal echeck required.
 
#43
I had a guy try to bleed me on an item I sold on evilbay. Told the guy return the merchandise, I'll issue refund when I receive. NOOO! Didn't want to do that, turns out he saw another item I had up for sale that was related (Same Hobby). Filed disputes with Paypal etc. Commenced to say send me that other item for free and I'll drop the disputes. At this point I no longer sell anything via the internet that isn't an in person deal or a "your on your own, if you buy" clause.
Sellers shouldn't have to be experts on everything they sell, or face being held over a barrel for minor representation mistakes. We're human beings, and if you buy over the internet to get a good deal, IMO it's your responsibility as a buyer to have all your ducks in a row. And as always Beware of the "Too good to be true" deal.

Good Luck Greg,
God Bless, Ray
 
#44
The thread was edited today because I thought you were sending it back so I re listed it. I was simply going to refund your money and relist it with attention to the fret buzz you claim. So if it sold to a normal person in the meantime it would surely not be an issue. You suggested I sell it and you would ship it to them. Then I came across this thread and thought well I am curious what knowledgeable public opinion is. Then when I got the PayPal claim against me that's it, now the bass is yours Joe... that's why the thread was then posted as not available.
You are ridiculous really, you are absurd about this.

And to any poster that would insinuate I knew about this or "just wants to keep his pockets full" GFY!:eek:
 
#46
FWIW private disputes between sellers / buyers need to stay private (as much fun as this is to watch). None of us really know how much of this is an actual problem, its simply he said this, he said that. That said, to file a claim this early when it appears efforts were being made to resolve this - bad form from the buyer. I wouldn't be inclined to sell to someone like that in future.
 
#47
yamaha said:
I really feel for you. Getting a piece of gear that is not as you expect is a bummer. However, IMO, the seller really did his part. He offered to help out with the repair, and finally offered to take it back. I would have probably done the same. I may be rigid in my thoughts, but if I sell a piece of gear, why should it cost me money because the client wants to return it. I have sold about 30 items through the classifieds, and through e-bay. When an item is mint, it's easy to describe. But when it's been used quite a bit, yet still fully functional, and has normal signs of usage, I try to describe it as well as possible, but words can be somewhat misunderstood. I'm lucky, I have a 100% seller rating, and most times, I get just as described, or better condition than expected comments.

Having said this, I have bought items that, are not at all what I was expecting. When I buy from e-bay, or from the classifieds, or even from stores that ship an item you've never been able to try, it's always because it's a deal. If not, I would of course buy the equivalent in local stores. All in all, I've made many more good transactions than bad, so I'm OK.

Still hope you find a reasonable way to conclude your business with this seller, but as I said before, you would have had to open a dispute with me too, if I were the seller.
Click to expand...

+1

I would have taken the 1/2 cost of a fret level from the guy and considered it a good deal. The guy sold the bass, and now is getting it back and it cost HIM money in the end just to end up with his bass back again? He was probably selling it b/c he needed money - not b/c he wanted to spend money to ship his bass up and down the east coast and hope it arrives back to him in the same condition.
 
#48
He actually decided that the bass was mine BEFORE the paypal complaint. I have the timestamps to prove it (would let burningskies see my pms and see the times PMs were sent as compared to when i filed the complaint.)

I did not escalate the the paypal dispute to a claim yet. It is only a formal complaint. I already PMd the guy numerous times. Because the seller had already said that he withdrew any offer to help, that is why I filed the complaint.

to be clear it is NOT a claim YET, but it may soon be. I will have some people look at the bass.

As for having a public pissing contest with the seller. I am not up for it. I came here for input and suggestions and got some helpful ones.

If the bass requires significant work I will return it and get the refund I deserve. If it doesn't require significant work then I will keep it. I will allow myself to be influenced by a few local TBers. I will also tweak the truss rod and let the bass settle for a few days. Thanks for your input TB.

/exits thread
 
#50
Joe in my opinion you should be 100 percent happy with your purchase and nobody but you can decide whats a minor flaw or a major it matters to you. If you are not happy it should be returned with no problems,when ever I do a deal I go out of my way to make sure all is right,big or small it doesnt matter thats how I roll! Just my thoughts :)
 
#51
I live somewhere very dry and see the funky things it can do to wood.

That bass travelled from somewhere very hot and humid across the whole country. If I ordered a bass from somewhere like that I would not be surprised if the neck had changed a bit.

I have a bass that had a bit of a hump between the third and fifth frets, I tightened it and loosened it a few times letting it sit a couple days in between and now no more hump with reaaaly low action.

Just a thought.

No I am not weighing in on this dispute.
 
#52
You know Joe, we are dealing with cancer in 2 different parts of my immediate family right now, that's about all the stress I can handle. This preposterous witch hunt you are on must stop. You asked public opinion and you got it. Now you don't like what you are hearing. I will say this once more. THAT MM BASS DID NOT BUZZ WHEN I PLAYED IT BRIEFLY HERE... PERIOD. Now that being said I didn't call you a liar or a cheat because you said it buzzes in Syracuse when you got it. I asked that you get it fixed and use the money you still owe me as my contribution, knowing that our Florida climate is completely different and acclimation to the ambient atmospheric conditions is a necessity. Contrary to some posters experience. When I get a new bass shipped to me here at Sanibel Island it take 7 to 10 days before I can tweak the final set up. You gave it what 10 minutes. You have filed a PayPal claim against me less than 72 hours after receiving the bass. That after I offered to refund 100% of you PP less $30.11 shipping. What are you really trying to do here Joe? Do you have any idea yourself?
Good Bye, all the best. :scowl:
 
#55
Unfortunately this is not all true... he never offered that alternative. The only way I could prove it would be to let burningskies or some other local read the PMs he sent me (I cannot edit his received PMs.)

Since his posts are starting to be filled with things that are not true i am not willing to discuss this openly anymore.

Take care,
joe

Dr Funk said:
You know Joe, we are dealing with cancer in 2 different parts of my immediate family right now, that's about all the stress I can handle. This preposterous witch hunt you are on must stop. You asked public opinion and you got it. Now you don't like what you are hearing. I will say this once more. THAT MM BASS DID NOT BUZZ WHEN I PLAYED IT BRIEFLY HERE... PERIOD. Now that being said I didn't call you a liar or a cheat because you said it buzzes in Syracuse when you got it. I asked that you get it fixed and use the money you still owe me as my contribution, knowing that our Florida climate is completely different and acclimation to the ambient atmospheric conditions is a necessity. Contrary to some posters experience. When I get a new bass shipped to me here at Sanibel Island it take 7 to 10 days before I can tweak the final set up. You gave it what 10 minutes. You have filed a PayPal claim against me less than 72 hours after receiving the bass. That after I offered to refund $100 of you PP less $30.11 shipping. What are you really trying to do here Joe? Do you have any idea yourself?
Good Bye, all the best. :scowl:
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#57
I would side with the seller on this issue.

Even if you bought the bass online at a store (Guitar Center, Mus. Friend, etc.), the buyer would be responsible for the shipping charges on a return. The cost of a professional service on the instrument is probably close to the same cost as the return shipping and if done by a trusted luthier will yield a bass with outstanding playability matched to your specifications.
 
#59
HogieWan said:
If there is buzzing around the middle of the neck, you may need a little more relief in the truss rod. Why not try it?
Click to expand...

It's seems like the above suggestion would solve your problem.

Certainly worth a try if the truss rod is in good shape and can be adjusted without much effort. If you like the bass except for the buzzing, adjust it a little and try it out.
 
#60
Even before this turned into high drama, I'd have taken the seller's side on this issue. Its not unreasonable to expect some neck and fret issues with a used shipped bass. Coupled with the fact that its a replacement neck, and an older bass, I'd factor the cost of a pro setup and fretwork into the price. Not because I'd expect it to show up with buzz, but because its just the way I'd get it to be the way I like it.

There is a fine line between reasonable and unreasonable. If a new bass turned up from MF or Bass Central needing some work, it would be on its way back and they'd better comp my shipping. If its a transaction from a TBer with a bass with a story, I think the burden would be on me to work pleasantly with the seller.
 
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