A small dispute over returning a bass

[WarriorJoe7]

Well that is how I usually set up all my basses. It is not lower than any that I play, and partly because I have a light touch (many other people buzz on basses that i don't.)

I live in a mid sized city so I should have no problem finding a luthier and taking a bus to him, though i will need extra time to find one and to have the time during the day to take a bus... a potentially time consuming ordeal. (I shouldn't need to ship it so i never brought it up.)

If I take the bass to Burningskies and/or BigFatBass and they say I am overreacting then i will back off.

It's an older Musicman bass.

I would agree that the seller is being reasonable IF he would agree to lose his shipping to me. I didn't expect to get a bass from an actual bassplayer that needed work done on it before I could play it. If that's the case atleast tell me beforehand and I will decide whether I can live with the price.

I wouldn't have bought the bass if I played it beforehand.

I'm having a hard time picking a dog in this fight....
Joe I think you are being reasonable and fair, but I think the seller is too
1-21/24 fret with only a 1/32 (a credit card) relief is some incredibly low action.
If you seller will pay 1/2 repair does that include shipping to a good repair shop?
Ultimately, If after a few days, your not happy with it return it. If you ship USPS shipping is a little cheaper. What model bass did you get?

Also, in my experience nice basses only take about a day to settle in, its part of what makes them nice basses

 

[WarriorJoe7]

Which one is more reasonable? Should I be responsible for shipping both ways or should we each be responsible for one way shipping?

I'm having a hard time picking a dog in this fight....
Joe I think you are being reasonable and fair, but I think the seller is too
1-21/24 fret with only a 1/32 (a credit card) relief is some incredibly low action.
If you seller will pay 1/2 repair does that include shipping to a good repair shop?
Ultimately, If after a few days, your not happy with it return it. If you ship USPS shipping is a little cheaper. What model bass did you get?

Also, in my experience nice basses only take about a day to settle in, its part of what makes them nice basses

 

[WarriorJoe7]

IMO, a fret level should be about the same as the cost of shipping, if he agreed to pay for half.

He suggested that he pay for half, but I never agreed to it.

At the same time agreeing to lose the shipping he paid for it, would probably be slightly cheaper than agreeing to pay for half the repair (which he suggested.) But I won't agree to that.

 

[bassman_al]

Last fall I bought a Fender Jazz '62 RI, 1994 model, from E-bay. The owner as it turned out is also a TB-er, as was the owner before him. Both have excellent ratings on TB and on E-bay, both swore the bass was in fantastic shape and set up perfectly. It got shipped from FL to VA. Upon it's arrival, I played it and noticed fret buzz. it was definitely playable, but far from smooth like my older P bass is .

I only recently started trying my own setups, so I at that time took it straight to 2 bass techs, both of whom said it needed to either be PLEK-ed or have the frets dressed and leveled. Ultimately I decided to get the frets leveled at my own expense. $160 for the job, completed by the tech who is Gold Level Fender certified and who was referred to me directly from Fender's customer service line.

I decided to do this for 2 reasons. One is that I decided that the bass was sold as-is and the previous owner truly did not believe that it needed any work. He seemed surprised that this all happened. He and I just had a different definition of what "excellent playing condition" means. Maybe he had it set up with higher action and never noticed the fret buzz. Who knows.

I am sure I could have returned it if I really wanted to go through the dispute process, but once I learned that the bass would play very well after the work was done, and would be good for about 10,000 hours of normal playing, and the fact that I knew I would want to keep this bass for a very long time, I decided to chalk it up to "that's what you get for buying on E-bay/ the cost of doing business sometimes on E-bay." The bass is in mint condition and is beautiful, and I got a good price on it. All factors in my decision. Now it plays beautifully. Its my main bass and I am happy. I am a 2 bass at at time guy, never really owned a tone of stable of gear of any kind, so my experience is more limited. But of the 7 basses I have owned, I can say that this one plays really nicely.

Hope this helps. Seems the seller in your situation really felt that there was nothing wrong with the bass, that this was a matter of your opinion differing from his. it is hard to tell if people are honest or not sometimes.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

One thing I must mention. When i got the bass I thought the bow and saddle height were normal for my playing tastes. Not too low or too high (other than the fact that one saddle was lower than the others. It was obvious just by looking at it. Like I said this easily could happen during shipping.)

It had a good setup other than one saddle needing raised. I have not tweaked the truss rod... from the current setup I don't see a need to tweak it unless i want higher action (which i don't, it is perfect as is except the buzz.)

It looks like I got the bass from a bass player who actually sets his instruments up, and likes a similiar setup to me, which is more than i expected. i usually expect to adjust stuff to my taste (which is why I learned how to do it.) I do not however expect it to buzz when the setup is to my liking.

Joe

 

[HogieWan]

Joe I think you are being reasonable and fair, but I think the seller is too

I agree here. I think I side with the seller. He sold you a bass and now you want him to be out of some cash because you don't particularly like this or that. Yes, you might not have bought it if you played it, but you didn't - your fault. When you buy things online, YOU are responsible for that decision - stop blaming someone else.

 

[HogieWan]

It had a good setup other than one saddle needing raised. I have not tweaked the truss rod... from the current setup I don't see a need to tweak it unless i want higher action (which i don't, it is perfect as is except the buzz.)

Joe

If there is buzzing around the middle of the neck, you may need a little more relief in the truss rod. Why not try it?

 

[stflbn]

If the neck is fine on the bass, and you like it, just get the fretwork done. The end cost to you will be about the same.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

You are entitled to your opinion but I don't see how it is my fault for incomplete or innacurate information.

If I agreed with you, then i would have no qualms throwing the listing up again and reselling it and failing to disclose the problem with it. Then it could be that new buyer's fault, and not mine. I wouldn't be "blaming" anyone. Problem solved.

I would never do this, but according to your logic, it would be perfectly fine.

I agree here. I think I side with the seller. He sold you a bass and now you want him to be out of some cash because you don't particularly like this or that. Yes, you might not have bought it if you played it, but you didn't - your fault. When you buy things online, YOU are responsible for that decision - stop blaming someone else.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

If there is buzzing around the middle of the neck, you may need a little more relief in the truss rod. Why not try it?

I think I will. Thanks!

 

[lomo]

I'd love to meet you guys if you ever get east or north (Montreal), but I must admit I don't foresee getting to Syracuse in the near future.

Hey Joe...I'd be happy to take a look at it. Or meet with Lomo & you at some point in time. Another good voice for such stuff is BigFatBass, Steve W., who is a local pro in Syracuse too.

-B.

 

[NickInMesa]

The bass might just need a setup. Sounds like you just need to tighten up the truss rod a quarter of a turn. No big deal.

+1

Setups cost a few bucks (my luthier does it for $50 now) but it is worth paying it, in my opinion.

Many folks end up spending top $$$ on a new bass thinking that only a new big name bass can play well, when often an older quality bass can be turned into a great instrument by simply setting it properly.

Bass guitars can be a pain to setup. I have had only one bass that I bought used, which played nice from the get go and that was an RBX 270 (there is something with Yamahas, they usually require little setup).

All my other basses required a trip to the luthier.

 

[Febs]

When i got the bass what he had said was true.

It seems fair enough that a fret level isn't a big deal and could be easily fixed, but it wasn't mentioned beforehand, and I would not be able to play the bass out as is.

You are entitled to your opinion but I don't see how it is my fault for incomplete or innacurate information.

When you buy an instrument that you do not have the opportunity to play yourself, the burden is on you to ask any question that is necessary to provide you with the information you need to make your purchasing decision. I do think that a seller has an obligation to disclose significant problems with an instrument, but I do not consider a fret level a significant problem. Whenever buying a used bass, I always assume that it may need a set-up to play to my taste, and in my opinion, a fret level is part of a set-up.

You acknowledge that everything this seller said to you is true. Unless you specifically asked about the issue that you are now raising, I think that the responsibility is yours, and that this seller has done more than enough to address your issue.

My $.02. YMMV.

 

[Soverntear]

i'd say take the offer of half repair. i mean if you liked the bass enough based on photos/sound clips and the buzz is repairable why not go for it. think of it this way. if you bought this bass and then a week later gig'd with it and somehow during the night something happened to it that caused the same problem. you would get it reapied in a heart beat right?

 

[yamaha]

OP, in your original post, you asked for our thoughts. However, it seems when we side with the seller, you come back with arguments to change our minds. I respect your idea, and wish you the best, but if I were the moderator of your dispute, all 2 point go to the seller.

 

[bongomania]

Tough call, but I side a little bit more with the seller here. The cost to you to fix the issue is probably less than the cost to both of you if you return it.

 

[Eric Moesle]

I personally level the frets of EVERY bass I get, whether new or used. They certainly need a complete setup to match my tastes.

I think the original poster is jumping the gun a bit here. He hasn't had a luthier look at the bass yet. He hasn't let the neck settle in after shipping to a different area of the country/humidty factor. He hasn't attempted adjusting the truss rod even a tiny bit to see if the little bump is remedied.

The frets on EVERY bass are different in size, level, crown, edging, etc. They're all done by hand, unless its seen a rare PLEK machine. You can't ASSUME just because the credit-card measurement is the same as the rest of your basses that it should result in buzz-free action on this one. Every one of my basses are different even when I level and re-crown myself. Its the human factor.

Frequently a slight truss rod tweak, especially with an older bass, will remedy EXACTLY this type of problem on just a small area of the board. Complaints before this simple step is even attempted is kind of silly, I think.

 

[bigfatbass]

Hey Joe, we should just take you to a local pro to do a proper inspection/set-up. A few bucks worth of fret work on a keeper bass is worth way more than the fuss you've put into it. I know a few guys who'd be happy to give it a run through while we wait if I drag you with me. Burningskies bill and I are always talking about trying to get together again, you could be a good excuse.

I live right near SU, PM if you're interested.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

I can see your point and can agree with you completely. Perhaps i did jump the gun.

He actually ontacted me the day I received it (sent with tracking) and asked me to leave feedback. I let him know my concerns and we started talking about how to resolve it. I totally planned to have a real luthier look at the thing.

I agree now that I needed to let the bass settle some, as a result of this thread. We'll see what happens with the bass.

The seller has now withdrawn all offers to help by PM because he saw this thread and was offended so it is a moot point. i.e. "All things considered I am finished, this deal is over as of right now. Have a nice life and enjoy your MM. Your opportunity to return it has expired."

Thanks for your inputs though.

I personally level the frets of EVERY bass I get, whether new or used. They certainly need a complete setup to match my tastes.

I think the original poster is jumping the gun a bit here. He hasn't had a luthier look at the bass yet. He hasn't let the neck settle in after shipping to a different area of the country/humidty factor. He hasn't attempted adjusting the truss rod even a tiny bit to see if the little bump is remedied.

The frets on EVERY bass are different in size, level, crown, edging, etc. They're all done by hand, unless its seen a rare PLEK machine. You can't ASSUME just because the credit-card measurement is the same as the rest of your basses that it should result in buzz-free action on this one. Every one of my basses are different even when I level and re-crown myself. Its the human factor.

Frequently a slight truss rod tweak, especially with an older bass, will remedy EXACTLY this type of problem on just a small area of the board. Complaints before this simple step is even attempted is kind of silly, I think.

 

[Dr Funk]

I am infuriated by this babble. My feedback is flawless, perfect buying and selling basses all over the world.

I sold WarriorJoe the MM. there was no misrepresentation of any kind. I offered to refund all his money less shipping. Since Joe decided to take this to a public forum so be it, I am quite interested to see what public opinion really is. Here in maroon is a copy and paste of my last PM to him some moments ago (I just omitted facts about our previous deal on another bass where the roles were reversed)...

"Hello Joe,
I have bent over backwards to appease your immature and inexperienced perspective on this. I have offered that you apply the $50 balance you owe me to a fret dress and the PayPal fees (supposed to be an echeck). I have gone so far as to tell you to ship it back and I will refund your money less shipping. So what are you after Joe, do you even know?
Now you start a public post about this. you are just too much the annoying pest at this point.
You didn't mention in your post that I extended you credit and you still owed me money, I guess you forgot huh? You really need to grow up and get a life Joe.
In view of your erratic and incessant ravings displayed in this what is normally a simple transaction I have changed my position. There were no inaccuracies in the listing by your own admission in your numerous PMs. I specifically told you BEFORE YOU BOUGHT IT it hasn't been played in 10 years but I played it briefly to check the electronics and the truss rod action to be sure there were no electronic or Truss rod issues.
All things considered I am finished, this deal is over as of right now. Have a nice life and enjoy your MM. Your opportunity to return it has expired.
Sincerely,
Greg"

Wait it gets better! Now I just received an official notice from PayPal that Joe has filed a dispute claim. I have never had one so I don't know a thing about it. But I hope Joe get's his medication straight before someone else is slandered. I am livid with this, wouldn't you be?