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A# tuning causes terrible speaker distortion

B

BedlamBassist

Jul 1, 2012
8
0
www.myspace.com
#1
I recently picked up a used GK Backline 600 and SWR Goliath 3 4x10 off craigslist. I'm pretty happy with the combo, except that when I tune my 5 string down to A# standard (where we play most of our songs) the speakers distort something awful. I pretty much have remove all the bass and use the bridge pickup bias only in order to get a clean sound.. even then it doesn't sound real great. I play a Ibanez BTB with mk2 Bart's. I should mention this is rehearsal volume, which is pretty loud, but the clip light is NOT flashing when i play.

Any thoughts? Is it the underpowered old backline 600 amp? Did someone abuse the SWR cab? Do i just need more speakers? More power?

Thanks ahead of time!

\m/


"Off Limits"
Bedlam Massacre
(That's not me playing bass.. this was recorded before I joined..)
 
#4
BedlamBassist said:
Any thoughts? Is it the underpowered old backline 600 amp? Did someone abuse the SWR cab? Do i just need more speakers? More power?

Thanks ahead of time!

\m/
Click to expand...


First off, there is no such thing as underpowering.


With that out of the way, it could be a couple of things.

You coud be cranking your amp too high to the point of distortion, the speakers could already have some damage (cone creasing,etc.), or you could just be asking too much of your speakers (hint: the wattage ratings of cabs mean nothing - most commercial speakers run out of gas at around 1/2 their wattage ratings).

A quick guess suggests that by tuning down and playing loud, you are hitting the mechanical limits of your speakers.
 
#8
BedlamBassist said:
It doesn't distort when playing byself at reasonable volumes. Goliath 3's are supposed to be rated at 800w, and the head is only 300w. I could be wrong about the cab rating... so most likely needs speaker work?
Click to expand...

As I stated above, real world mechanical limits are around 1/2 the wattage rating. Combine that with down-tuning, and how much "low end" EQ you are using, and it can get ugly fast.

There is also still the possibility that the cab saw some abuse before you, and only manifests itself at higher volumes (possible cone creasing or coil warping).

BedlamBassist said:
So how do I know what cabs are designed to handle loud detuned playing?
Click to expand...

Manufacturers don't supply the important speaker ratings such as displacement limits, so the only way to know is to try the cab out in person.
 
#9
BedlamBassist said:
So how do I know what cabs are designed to handle loud detuned playing?
Click to expand...

Not many are, in the way you are trying to use them. On top of that most commercial manufacturers dont publish that kind of information, you will have to try them out to find out. For the big bass boost you want there are not going to be a lot of cabs that will do that at volume. Regardless of what the cabs are rated at (which is a thermal rating) you are pushing the cab past its mechanical limits with a low frequency signal.

That said there are cabinets out there that will handle a ton of low end, but you are not going to find them at your local GC.
 
#10
BedlamBassist said:
So how do I know what cabs are designed to handle loud detuned playing?
Click to expand...

You look at the measurements like the SPL frequency charts. You'll have to switch to pro FOH cabinets to get these kind of specs as no bass gear manufacturer publishes them. Pro FOH cabs aren't any more costly than what bass gear manufacturers are charging, and you'll get some predictable results.
 
#13
BedlamBassist said:
Alrighty, thanks for the information. One more question, if I get another 4x10 to help shoulder the load, could that help make the situation better? Or is the better choice to just play through one cab that is better designed?
Click to expand...

It depends on the cab, and the budget, I'd imagine.

A# tuning won't carry at high volume in most rigs... Go big or go specialized: http://www.philjonespuresound.com/products/?id=25

Truth is it'll cost a fair bit to go the specialized route. Try a cheaper option before spending huge money on higher end gear (or try it first & get a return option if possible).

Good luck, and check the preamp if your instrument has one. Leave everything flat... does that help?
 
#14
BedlamBassist said:
....Goliath 3's are supposed to be rated at 800w, and the head is only 300w. I could be wrong about the cab rating...
Click to expand...

Wattage ratings are THERMAL ratings telling you when the voice coils will melt, NOT when the cab will fart. Wattage ratings are largely IRRELEVANT for anything except marketing.

You need to know the DISPLACEMENT abilities of the cab. Apparently your 4x10 is not up to snuff. Try adding another cab or moving to 15's, or a better designed cab.
 
#16
you could just stop tuning everything so low. would it kill the music to tune up to B? I'm not trying to be a D###, I'm just looking for a simple solution for you.

I played in a band that tuned down to A#. The only person that loved it was the guitarist. The singer didn't like it, I didn't like it, and FOH guys didn't like it, and the drummer- well he's a drummer. what does he know?
 
#17
Does it only happen with certain notes? I had that happen once (luckily during a sound check) where my amp was positioned in a bad spot relative to vocalists' mics, and every time I played an "A" its volume was enormous compared to any other note...flirting with but not quite getting to feedback. Repositioning your amp might work...in my case we didn't have stage space to do that so I ended up going direct to the PA...problem solved.
 
#18
Feeding a ported cabinet large amounts of low-frequency sound below its tuning frequency will cause the speakers to bottom out. This is inherent in the design of a ported cabinet.

I suspect most commercial 4x10 cabs would behave similarly. They're just not designed for that frequency range. You can have compact and loud, compact and deep, or loud and deep, but not all three.
 
#20
chucko58 said:
Feeding a ported cabinet large amounts of low-frequency sound below its tuning frequency will cause the speakers to bottom out. This is inherent in the design of a ported cabinet.

I suspect most commercial 4x10 cabs would behave similarly. They're just not designed for that frequency range. You can have compact and loud, compact and deep, or loud and deep, but not all three.
Click to expand...

B.S.

Link Removed

Lighter than some 410's, louder than any 810, will handle a# tuning as well.
 

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