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Absolutely buried at outdoor gig

In my experience subs may be happy-making out front, but only confuse stage sound, usually causing phase-crossing that can eat up the amp sound. So your amp may be coming through the PA but not back to you. Subs without a sound tech to run them is pretty well a guaranteed disaster in my book. Subs should always be mixed on an aux output, and if they interfere with the bass I insist it be taken out of that mix. Trying to hear my bass through a sub is impossible, the freqs just aren't there to provide note definition, harmonics or articulation. Subs emphasize certain freqs, that's all, they are for subliminal thump, not music. Move bass output into just the mains, get some bass going in the monitors, THEN determine whether your rig is up to what you need.

Alternatively, get the band entirely out of the PA and aim for good balance at lower volume.
 
I used to have a Walkabout. Honestly that amp into that single cabinet is gonna struggle at an outdoor gig imo. I played an outdoor gig recently with my Bergantino HP into two Berg 112's and honestly would not have minded bigger cabs in that particular situation. Indoors it is never a problem.
 
I had same problem for a long time cause we did a lot of outdoor gigs...and then I found the solution ;)
Two Eminence 3015's, kickback casters and a tug bar....70 pounds, roll it in - roll it out. Of course there are now even lighter 2x15's out there (Mesa, Revsound) but I love how tall this cab is!
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yessir. i had the same cab, but don loaded faitals at my request. combined with a ( jonke inspired ) super twin conversion, being heard was never a problem.
 
I used to have a Walkabout. Honestly that amp into that single cabinet is gonna struggle at an outdoor gig imo. I played an outdoor gig recently with my Bergantino HP into two Berg 112's and honestly would not have minded bigger cabs in that particular situation. Indoors it is never a problem.
i had the 15" walkabout. it would have been great on a backyard patio, but no way on a broad expanse of lawn with no riser, etc.
 
Yesterday my band played a casual outdoor gig at a beautiful property with an expansive yard. We brought our PA and I was running my little walk about for monitoring purposes. We literally played on the ground with no riser whatsoever. This was also our first gig with our new powered subwoofer.

our opening acoustic songs sounded just fine from our "Stage" but once things got going, I absolutely could not hear anything out of my amp and only the muffled subwoofer across the way. By default we keep our monitors pretty straightforward without any bass coming through.

I had my amp on a tilted stand, gain and volume at appropriate levels. I tried standing close and away by about 15'. Man, it was tough and muscle memory was clutch over the next two hours.

I think I'm going to need to augment my rig, but I would love to get some tips from you folks who have been in similar situations. Any recommendations on monitor mixing or sub placement?
Take the rig out of the equation. Get some in ears wired from the mixer and enjoy. Don't get too caught up in how you sound through the in ears as long as you sound good in the mix to the audience. Less gear to carry too.
 
i had the 15" walkabout. it would have been great on a backyard patio, but no way on a broad expanse of lawn with no riser, etc.

Absolutely my experience as well. I swapped out the 12" cab for the 15" ext cab (hated carrying them all in one with the weight).
 
The subwoofer is an ominous sign. I love subwoofers like I love tube guitar amps, when placed in the right hands. Most of the time they detract from the sound of the band by being used without restraint.
I couldn't have said it better. If you can hear that there's a subwoofer then it's too loud. We heard Jacob Collier at Lincoln Center in NYC and when he played the lower end of his Nord it was nice and full but it brought no attention to the subwoofer. That's the correct use.
 
My dad band started with vocals and guitars through the mains (2x qsc k12.2). The drummer was left hanging and I was going through a 15" cab with 400w ish head.

we decided to take my rig out, buy a jbl eon 18" powered sub, mic the drum set and buy into the in-ear monitoring.

Our analog board allows for two mixes to the in ears. Guitarists get one mix and the drummer and I share another mix.

I learned this weekend that I need to have a spare set of in ears since I went a little cheap with them but all in all, I enjoy the experience better than trying to listen through the stage noise (acoustic drums/cymbals & mic'd guitarist amps) for my rig.
 
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Not a popular opinion, but here it is anyway. One type of setup that can be conducive to a mor ebalanced sound is to have the amps placed in somnewhat of a semicircle rather than all facing outward. That also means as a group you can play with a little less volume if needed. Of course your PA would still be focused out front. Most groups do not like this, but it works. Think orchestra pit.
Yup...sidewashing has really helped my band more effectively manage our stage levels....and we can hear ourselves and each other.
 
I couldn't have said it better. If you can hear that there's a subwoofer then it's too loud. We heard Jacob Collier at Lincoln Center in NYC and when he played the lower end of his Nord it was nice and full but it brought no attention to the subwoofer. That's the correct use.
I agree. We set our sub level one notch above the point that it disappears to the ear. Too many people think that the sub is a rig replacement. You need solid pa mains to carry most of your sound. The sub just gives the mains some breathing room on their power output if you have the crossover going right.
 
This is exactly why the WD-800 with Subway cabinets were developed.

The 4 ohm Scouts aren't very efficient, they were discontinued in favor of the 8 ohm version which when used with the 8 ohm Scout extension was a much more formidable rig.

It's likely the combination of factors that you are dealing with.

Which is why my D-800+ with 1x12 and 1x15 Subway cabinets gives me all I need. We've played mostly outdoor gigs this Spring and Summer and it more than keeps up with drums, keyboards, (loud) guitar, and vocals. I like a lot of headroom and this does it. It's not just the 8ohm bumped down to 4ohms with two cabinets (and 400w to 800w)...it's that there are two cabinets and more surface area. Peace.
 
I'm gonna take a wild guess that you didn't read the OP. :)

Oh, I read it and have been there. Couldn't hear himself. Amp only for monitoring, on a stand. There is a big difference between hearing yourself and feeling yourself. The Scout wasn't projecting enough mids and highs to hear himself from 15'. Sub was dominating the low end. Sounds like a job for clarity and projection, no?

I have very capable big cabs that can easily be too loud in the low end, ultimately forcing me to turn down to fit the mix and losing some top end presence. If you don't have to carry all the low end and you just need to hear yourself I can't think of a better solution than Phil Jones, and I have several cabs you would deem better solutions. All of my big cabs sound better with the PJ C8 on top of them, without exception. My Genzler BA410-3 with the C8 is outright scary.

Can you show me on the 5" speaker where Phil Jones hurt you? :D Kidding of course, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. My suggestion not being right for you doesn't make it wrong.
 
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Personally, I'm really apprehensive about adding the sub. I think it introduces another variable, and can really screw up our audience volume and listening experience

If you are clueless about using subs, maybe. If you take the time and effort to learn HOW to use them properly, as a constructive tool, that's an entirely different matter.

In my experience subs may be happy-making out front, but only confuse stage sound, usually causing phase-crossing that can eat up the amp sound. So your amp may be coming through the PA but not back to you. Subs without a sound tech to run them is pretty well a guaranteed disaster in my book. Subs should always be mixed on an aux output, and if they interfere with the bass I insist it be taken out of that mix. Trying to hear my bass through a sub is impossible, the freqs just aren't there to provide note definition, harmonics or articulation. Subs emphasize certain freqs, that's all, they are for subliminal thump, not music. Move bass output into just the mains, get some bass going in the monitors, THEN determine whether your rig is up to what you need.

That's not at all what subs CAN be used for when used properly for reinforcement. Different types of music and different mixing approaches can (and do) incorporate subs in ways that make the low end more articulate when combined with appropriately matched and tuned tops. They CAN be used to add some thump (essential for some music types) but they can also be used to provide controlled low frequency extension that the tops (and a bass rig like the OPs) can't possibly achieve. The "phase-crossing" comment makes no sense.

I couldn't have said it better. If you can hear that there's a subwoofer then it's too loud. We heard Jacob Collier at Lincoln Center in NYC and when he played the lower end of his Nord it was nice and full but it brought no attention to the subwoofer. That's the correct use.

That's YOUR opinion for THAT type of music, but you might also be surprised at how much sub was used to provide the LF extension too.

When I was mixing touring acts, each genre and even each act within the genre could be mixed differently and with a different emphasis on low frequency content and extension. For example, when mixing and act like Wynton Marsalis or Herbie Hancock, the use of subs indoors was more like you describe, yet when mixing outdoors for a larger audience it takes a lot more sub to cover the upright, kick and piano. Because of this, we would also typically provide a sidefill mix to fill in on the stage what isn't reflected back from the stagehouse walls, shell (if there was one) and room. This side fill mix may be high passed to reduce the content that may also be present in the energy from sub wraparound.

On the other side, when I would mix an act in some genres of world music, zydeco, R&B, rock, etc., the sub tended to be mixed in a little heavier to provide more of the low end energy. This was done as much for feel and impact, to emphasize the groove and provide "momentum" as for "tone". Since the acts I mixed were all well established acts, it was relatively easy to grasp from their recordings what the act was trying to achieve with their music.

A genre that may surprise you with the application of subs is Americana and American Folk/Folk-rock. As these acts developed, they began to appreciate how subs could add and subtract the impact and intimacy of their live performances. For example, when I mixed acts like Don McClean, Gordon Lightfoot, New Riders (of the Purple Sage), Kate Wolf, John Prine, the arrangements would often provide the opportunities to emphasize low frequency extension and level on higher energy songs. This allowed the mix to sound fuller without getting too much louder, added the drive and "bigness" without getting in the way of the rest of the mix.

When you get into the modern genres like metal, modern rock, big pop, the integration of subs in the mix can be much more aggressive with the low end driving the mix and everything else sitting around the low end rather than within. It's a style that I'm not terribly fond of because it's not the types of acts I typically mixed, BUT I respect why they do this and given the success in this genre I'm not in the position to argue against their position. Even though I didn't often mix these kinds of shows, there was one memorable act that I did a short tour with, an act that really established the foundation that metal was built on. This was the band Anvil, and IMO they were really quite good but were simply about 5 years too early to achieve the success that Metallica (who credits Anvil as the precursor of the genre) achieved.



So, from somebody who was in the trenches for 40 years and experienced firsthand the evolution of sound systems from simpler reinforcement without subs to more comprehensive systems with wider bandwidth and higher clean output, this opened up additional possibilities for improved and different interpretations with the new tools that were simply not possible even though they were desired much earlier than they became available.
 
The first time I played an outdoor gig, my 10" 50w guitar amp that I had could not cut it. I bought a Phil Jones Double Four thinking 70w and special bass speakers would be enough, but no. So with a suggestion from a member here to get more speaker surface area, I bought a Carvin MB15 200w neo combo, plus the matching 115MBE cabinet, making 250w. Never had a problem with an open outdoor gig again, even the sound engineer at the next gig complimented the rig.

+1. I've got this exact rig; great and lightweight. Too bad Carvin isn't still making them.