Absolutely buried at outdoor gig

[KohanMike]

The first time I played an outdoor gig, my 10" 50w guitar amp that I had could not cut it. I bought a Phil Jones Double Four thinking 70w and special bass speakers would be enough, but no. So with a suggestion from a member here to get more speaker surface area, I bought a Carvin MB15 200w neo combo, plus the matching 115MBE cabinet, making 250w. Never had a problem with an open outdoor gig again, even the sound engineer at the next gig complimented the rig.

 

[themickster]

Yesterday my band played a casual outdoor gig at a beautiful property with an expansive yard. We brought our PA and I was running my little walk about for monitoring purposes. We literally played on the ground with no riser whatsoever. This was also our first gig with our new powered subwoofer.

our opening acoustic songs sounded just fine from our "Stage" but once things got going, I absolutely could not hear anything out of my amp and only the muffled subwoofer across the way. By default we keep our monitors pretty straightforward without any bass coming through.

I had my amp on a tilted stand, gain and volume at appropriate levels. I tried standing close and away by about 15'. Man, it was tough and muscle memory was clutch over the next two hours.

I think I'm going to need to augment my rig, but I would love to get some tips from you folks who have been in similar situations. Any recommendations on monitor mixing or sub placement?

It's hard to say what was wrong without hearing it. I've been somewhere that has a drummer playing a small room like he's got to fill a stadium. The guitarist puts himself loud enough to be heard above the kit. The mic can't get anywhere near loud enough for the words to be heard, owing to the feedback. The drummer doesn't like being asked to play quieter. My band had a stand-in at a practice get angry and shout at us. We told him not to come back.

The above may or may not be the problem.

 

[Jefenator]

Get a stack, Jack.

Doesn't have to be the biggest, most expensive thing out there. Doesn't even have to match! If it sounds good, it is good...
I use this pairing for Salsa dances without PA support and the master volume doesn't go beyond 9 o'clock. If the latest batch of recordings is anything to go by, (made with a Zoom at the far end of the dance floor) it's covering the whole area, no problem.
LOL - it probably helps a lot that we have no guitarist! (There are two percussionists, though. And 3 horns. And 150 dancers!)

Sometimes I use a smaller amp and incorporate some PA support with my own gear. I find the key there is to have good speakers that can take a bit of a pounding, then exercise common sense and don't pound them too too hard. (QSC K series or equivalent can deal - cheaper stuff, I wouldn't...)
Subwoofers are for young people's tailbones and powered 10s & 12s are for intelligibility which does include bass guitar IME.
For this yard party with an oldies/rockabilly group, I used just the one bass cab with a 50W tube amp and let the powered speakers deliver maybe half of the bass guitar to the audience. (I walked out front a bit & could hear it just enough in my mains.)
That tube amp is a little more potent driving two cabs at 4Ω. But, between my rig, the PA and the drum set, I was already hauling enough **** for this job.

 

[bass.slinger]

IEMs was my solution - tough to play fretless when you can't hear yourself play.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

Subs, in my experience, are great for kick drum and certain particular styles of music. No so much for bass, though. The frequencies that project and define "bass" are usually above the range of a subwoofer, IME. When I play outside I usually have a stack, not big, (sometimes just 200W) a 1x12 and a small 1x15, or a 2x10 and that 1x15 seems to suffice. It also places a speaker much closer to my ear level, which is a big plus. Also, I doubt tilting the cab back would help all that much, partly because dirt and grass are pretty crummy reflective surfaces.
Hope you get it sorted!

The Bar Band Bassman

 

[LiptonJigglers]

Sorry, you were never going to hear yourself with that combo.
You need a rig that allows you to be independent of support.

I've been playing an outdoor show regularly, 3 times a year, for the last 20 years...
No stage, ground level, 10 acres of open field. No support for instruments. Only vocals.
Live and raw.
First year, it was clearly evident my 15"/350watt combo was pathetically inadequate.
Next year, my 215 800 watt cab and 600 watt amp was completely the opposite and I've never looked back.

 

[Thundar]

I had same problem for a long time cause we did a lot of outdoor gigs...and then I found the solution
Two Eminence 3015's, kickback casters and a tug bar....70 pounds, roll it in - roll it out. Of course there are now even lighter 2x15's out there (Mesa, Revsound) but I love how tall this cab is!

 

[Sid the Kid]

That sucks and I have been there. For hearing yourself clearly on stage you can't beat Phil Jones cabinets. They don't bring the thunder like a 4x10 but it sounds like the new sub will handle the lows. They do offer a great amount of clarity and presence in the mids and highs with awesome projection.

I bet the Scout combo is perfect in a small tavern. Crappy situation you were in bass brotha, hopefully you snag some more firepower for the next one.

 

[agedhorse]

The reasonable volume expectations of the WA12 running 300w into the single 4ohm combo cabinet.

This is exactly why the WD-800 with Subway cabinets were developed.

The 4 ohm Scouts aren't very efficient, they were discontinued in favor of the 8 ohm version which when used with the 8 ohm Scout extension was a much more formidable rig.

It's likely the combination of factors that you are dealing with.

 

[juancaminos]

I dig outdoor gigs. just did three in a row. Could never do it with a single cabinet unless it was a 410.

 

[Queue]

I've got a GK MB212-II 500W combo with the 500W powered cab 212MBP.

I suspect I'll be OK when given the opportunity to unleash it on the great outdoors.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Outdoors is always tough without a pro PA/monitoring setup.

FWIW, you can put together an entry-level in-ear situation for just you for less than a hundred bucks.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Yesterday my band played a casual outdoor gig at a beautiful property with an expansive yard. We brought our PA and I was running my little walk about for monitoring purposes. We literally played on the ground with no riser whatsoever. This was also our first gig with our new powered subwoofer.

our opening acoustic songs sounded just fine from our "Stage" but once things got going, I absolutely could not hear anything out of my amp and only the muffled subwoofer across the way. By default we keep our monitors pretty straightforward without any bass coming through.

I had my amp on a tilted stand, gain and volume at appropriate levels. I tried standing close and away by about 15'. Man, it was tough and muscle memory was clutch over the next two hours.

I think I'm going to need to augment my rig, but I would love to get some tips from you folks who have been in similar situations. Any recommendations on monitor mixing or sub placement?

Well, if you had the sub close by, you should've been fine hearing your bass.

Me, I far prefer outdoor gigs. It's so much easier to hear everything because the drums aren't bouncing around the stage drowning everything out. A little 112 is perfect.

But, you obviously need to turn your amp up if you can't hear yourself, or...

In ears

 

[pbass2]

I've got a GK MB212-II 500W combo with the 500W powered cab 212MBP.

I suspect I'll be OK when given the opportunity to unleash it on the great outdoors.

Oh you'll be fine with that! I just have the 112 combo and 112 powered cab, and even that 400w 2x12 little stack has done great for me outdoors(with solid PA support). I don't even have to turn it up much. But the 112 combo by itself sitting on the floor--no bueno.

 

[Ken R]

Yesterday my band played a casual outdoor gig at a beautiful property with an expansive yard. We brought our PA and I was running my little walk about for monitoring purposes. We literally played on the ground with no riser whatsoever. This was also our first gig with our new powered subwoofer.

our opening acoustic songs sounded just fine from our "Stage" but once things got going, I absolutely could not hear anything out of my amp and only the muffled subwoofer across the way. By default we keep our monitors pretty straightforward without any bass coming through.

I had my amp on a tilted stand, gain and volume at appropriate levels. I tried standing close and away by about 15'. Man, it was tough and muscle memory was clutch over the next two hours.

I think I'm going to need to augment my rig, but I would love to get some tips from you folks who have been in similar situations. Any recommendations on monitor mixing or sub placement?

If I read this correctly, you were in the PA, and the Walk About was just to hear yourself? Why not put it about 7 feet in front of you and have it pointed at and tilted toward your face?

 

[burgerdj]

It happens, accepting a gig for which the band is under-amplified. "You go to battle with the army you've got." The whole band has to accommodate, because the bass player can't win the volume war with any reasonable amount of gear. Everybody turns down, and the audience will probably be just as happy, if not happier.

The subwoofer is an ominous sign. I love subwoofers like I love tube guitar amps, when placed in the right hands. Most of the time they detract from the sound of the band by being used without restraint.

I've had the problem that the subs drown out my "monitor" amp, but with a total loss of clarity, leading to that situation where it's too loud and you can't hear yourself, simultaneously.

Personally, I'm really apprehensive about adding the sub. I think it introduces another variable, and can really screw up our audience volume and listening experience

 

[Marko 1]

That sucks and I have been there. For hearing yourself clearly on stage you can't beat Phil Jones cabinets. They don't bring the thunder like a 4x10 but it sounds like the new sub will handle the lows. They do offer a great amount of clarity and presence in the mids and highs with awesome projection.

I'm gonna take a wild guess that you didn't read the OP.

 

[BassyBill]

Sounds like a simple matter of

not enough rig for the gig.

Yep. 'Fraid so.

A small rig isn't going to be enough for an outdoor gig with anything louder than a single amplified acoustic guitar.

 

[burgerdj]

I had same problem for a long time cause we did a lot of outdoor gigs...and then I found the solution
Two Eminence 3015's, kickback casters and a tug bar....70 pounds, roll it in - roll it out. Of course there are now even lighter 2x15's out there (Mesa, Revsound) but I love how tall this cab is!
View attachment 5149191

Yeah / I think a 212 or 210/15 is in my future for outdoor work. I'd really prefer the band not use the sub, but I'd need a rig capable of delivering the low end in these situations. I'll keep the WA12 for our bar gigs.

 

[bassinflorida]

Not a popular opinion, but here it is anyway. One type of setup that can be conducive to a mor ebalanced sound is to have the amps placed in somnewhat of a semicircle rather than all facing outward. That also means as a group you can play with a little less volume if needed. Of course your PA would still be focused out front. Most groups do not like this, but it works. Think orchestra pit.