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Double Bass Accompanying Jazz & Cabaret Singers

In the end, I usually rely on the pianist, who is typically more used to backing up singers like these.
And this is one of the hardest things for a piano player to learn!

Ultimately somebody in the band, usually the piano player, has to cue the singer, because you can be certain singers don't count, and often cannot hear when the changes are coming back to the I, especially if the band is playing busy.

Keep it simple, let the piano player cue the singer, and stay close to home on the changes. If the singer effs up and comes in wrong, let the piano lead the way out.
 
... because the singer would not keep a reasonable tempo. It wasn't that he couldn't. He liked to vary the tempo for "effect." The effect was it was difficult to stay with him and he refused to stay with the band. Did I mention he was a self absorbed arrogant jerk? ...

My wife and I encountered this some years ago. Also a volunteer situation for us, this was a college jazz performance class which we assisted as staff for a number of years.

This particular student singer actually had remarkable stage presence, but he had no ability and no interest in counting or keeping the tempo or rhythm. He was a nice enough older gent, and he had pretty nice Sinatra-style voice quality, but he bristled whenever we suggested counting -- "I've never had to count before, this must be your problem" was frequently his response -- some backup people had obviously spoiled him in the past.

He was nearly the end of the combo, all the students feared on-stage work with him because he was totally unpredictable. There was no option with him except to stumble along and change the rhythm and tempo as needed to suit him. It was probably good training for the other student combo members, but it was sort of a shame to have to put them through it. Happily other singers -- who could count -- regularly floated into the combo.

That isn't to say that other combo vocalists and instrumentalists didn't also have various problems, and it's not like we haven't encountered other similar vocalist situations since then, but this was the most memorable situation. It was pretty horrible, we still occasionally talk about him, some 10 years later.
 
My wife and I encountered this some years ago. Also a volunteer situation for us, this was a college jazz performance class which we assisted as staff for a number of years.

This particular student singer actually had remarkable stage presence, but he had no ability and no interest in counting or keeping the tempo or rhythm. He was a nice enough older gent, and he had pretty nice Sinatra-style voice quality, but he bristled whenever we suggested counting -- "I've never had to count before, this must be your problem" was frequently his response -- some backup people had obviously spoiled him in the past.

He was nearly the end of the combo, all the students feared on-stage work with him because he was totally unpredictable. There was no option with him except to stumble along and change the rhythm and tempo as needed to suit him. It was probably good training for the other student combo members, but it was sort of a shame to have to put them through it. Happily other singers -- who could count -- regularly floated into the combo.

That isn't to say that other combo vocalists and instrumentalists didn't also have various problems, and it's not like we haven't encountered other similar vocalist situations since then, but this was the most memorable situation. It was pretty horrible, we still occasionally talk about him, some 10 years later.
I hear you. If somebody is willing to work on it, then I'm good with that, but when the try to lay it back on you is when it gets annoying. Those snide remarks I mentioned was him denigrating me for not keeping up with him.
 
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My wife and I encountered this some years ago. Also a volunteer situation for us, this was a college jazz performance class which we assisted as staff for a number of years.

This particular student singer actually had remarkable stage presence, but he had no ability and no interest in counting or keeping the tempo or rhythm. He was a nice enough older gent, and he had pretty nice Sinatra-style voice quality, but he bristled whenever we suggested counting -- "I've never had to count before, this must be your problem" was frequently his response -- some backup people had obviously spoiled him in the past.

He was nearly the end of the combo, all the students feared on-stage work with him because he was totally unpredictable. There was no option with him except to stumble along and change the rhythm and tempo as needed to suit him. It was probably good training for the other student combo members, but it was sort of a shame to have to put them through it. Happily other singers -- who could count -- regularly floated into the combo.

That isn't to say that other combo vocalists and instrumentalists didn't also have various problems, and it's not like we haven't encountered other similar vocalist situations since then, but this was the most memorable situation. It was pretty horrible, we still occasionally talk about him, some 10 years later.
The phrase “not suffering fools gladly” comes to mind here! I’m happy to work with anyone with time issues due to lack of experience or ability who is interested in improving; less so with those who have these issues but blame others.
 
It's probably been said already, but if the singer isn't good at counting in their tunes, you could get them to sing a little bit of each before you start it and derive a tempo based on that. It might not be perfect, but it should put you in the ballpark and will hopefully motivate the singer to learn how to count in their own tunes...
 
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My wife is the vocalist in our jazz combo (as well as the big band we're in) and fortunately she's really good at counting off the tempo she prefers as well as keeping the same tempo throughout the song so I guess I'm blessed in that area!! But...our gig on Valentines Day...the male vocalist that sang with us was all over the place with his tempo and then as the night went on, the drummer kept slowing down (I think his Geratol was wearing off) and it felt like a continuous tug of war!!
 
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As an interesting counterpoint though, some singers are also marvelous instrumentalists... Our main singer plays rhythm guitar and while she intentionally stretches phrasing in singing, her guitar work is like a metronome. Our fiddler also sings and plays piano, and she also stretches phrasing in singing, but her piano work is like a concert master. We've all learned we can religiously follow the guitar or piano while the singers move in whatever directions they wish to go vocally.
 
It's probably been said already, but if the singer isn't good at counting in their tunes, you could get them to sing a little bit of each before you start it and derive a tempo based on that. It might not be perfect, but it should put you in the ballpark and will hopefully motivate the singer to learn how to count in their own tunes...

This. I ran my own jam sessions for a little while and now much more comfortable playing for singers. Once the sang a bit someone in the band would count the tune off.

The other trick is to have the pianist play an in-time intro (last 8 bars or the bridge) to set up the tune. Bassist accompaniment is optional. This by far is the most effective. I sometimes do it as a solo bass to walk the last 4 or 8 but people are not used to only hearing walking lines so it's kinda iffy.

Hardest part of playing for singers in this setting is when they come up and say "I don't know what key i should sing it in". Or they come in with a key and pianist negotiates only to find they're better off a half step away or a whole tritone. You then have to be on top of your sight-transposing game.
 
I was once on a gig with a big band leader who was an ok player, but hated leading his rather large band.
Once someone came up and asked for a song we all knew. it was in 6/4. The leader (with a puzzled look on his face) turned to the band. Awkwardly looked around, paused, looked back and started us. 1...2...3456..
Nobody played. They just stared at him. It was BRILLIANT!!!
 
I'm late to this thread but will chime in with "jazz singers" and "cabaret singers" can be quite different.

Jazz singers are usually singing with a band, (chords, drums, bass) and are used to being in a rhythm groove and keeping the musical form. They are singing the song.
Cabaret singers are often more musical theatre background, often backed only with piano which varies tempo to follow the singer who's in a "character" from a show. The tempo variations are needed to help act the song out in theatre style.
 
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