Acme B4 woes.....keep it, replace it, or add to it

[g4string]

I disagree--can you explain why you give this advice? What would be achieved, how would it address his issues?

directly stolen from Acme's site, this sums it up best........."Lowering the setting of the Level, or Volume control on your power amplifier does not limit it’s ability to produce it’s full power! If a 1000 watt amplifier is only turned halfway up, it does not become a 500 watt amplifer! It is still able to produce it’s full 1000 watts if it gets a “hot” enough input signal"

The way I see it........there is no harm in setting the gain knob full hot on amp and controlling the overall volume with a preamp

I'm not advising to ditch the Acme's and go with the NV610...but it was what worked for me in my band that went from ethereal funk/reggae to punkabilly pretty much overnight. Both guitarists went from Fender Twins to Mesa Dual Rectifier 2x12's (or some kind of beast) and my wonderful Acme sound was relegated to the background. I didn't get any cut at all, and turning up too much drew too much current and popped breakers. Good thing, too, because I didn't blow any speakers or crossover bulbs.

To be honest, the NV610 was not a great bedroom tone cabinet for me, but killed in a loud band setting. Solo'd, all by my lonesome in the studio, it was pretty soulless with my preamp/poweramp setup (at the time, a Bass PODxt Pro and the PLX 3402) so I went with a Mesa 400+, and it still lacked the depth and tonality I really dug when I solo'd my Acme's.

I dig what you are saying........maybe the Acme is not what is right for this band?????????????????

You are not alone! I am on my second set of replacement drivers in my B2. I am getting hypersensitive to using it anymore. And, yes, I have been very careful with it power-wise. If I crease another driver, I don't want to replace it again. Then I have a cab I can't really do anything with.

+10000......however, the ONLY thing palatable about replacing the drivers is that Andy prices them very reasonably.....$90ea a speaker (that includes a $20 refundable core)......it works out to be final price of $70 a speaker.

 

[g4string]

If you're set on the B4, I think that maybe adding a B2 would help with the added mid and tweeter. You still may find yourself not being able to cut through the guitars, though.

As for what to do with EQ, you might have to look to the guitarists for help. Chances are, they're playing with their perfect bedroom tone in a band situation...meaning they're compensating for no bass guitar by turning up the bass knob. When they get into a band situation, they keep their bass knob pegged, then turn up their volume, and bogart all the frequencies that you're supposed to be covering. You can approach it by blaming them for your speakers blowing.

As for you, you might realize that your bedroom tone doesn't work either. Up the mids more than you think you need to, drop the bass frequencies, and turn up. Solo'd, you might sound like a honky, midrange-y mess, but when the band kicks in, it'll sound like a good mix.

Anyway, just food for thought.

The guitarists EQ's I think are OK......they just play really loud!!!! Here are some sound nuggets Link Removed (I am not the bass player in the pics or the tracks, I am replacing him) Can you imagine a rehearsal with these guys!!!! LOUD. Since I am so new, I dont have the balls to start yelling at guys to turn down.......I may or may not continue with the project. Volume being one reason out of a few..........

 

[BassmanPaul]

I agree..........stupid guitar players, why do they have to play so loud:scowl:!!!!

I think adding a B2 is what I need (in addition to fixing my drivers)

If you do this get a cabinet with twice the ohms of your B4. That will equalize the power to each speaker. You will no longer be able to bridge.

I still advise a second B4. You've blown two sets of speakers already better to be safe than sorry.

Paul

 

[Kindness]

You need a second B4 or a move to another cabinet with a much different voicing (the NV610 is a good suggestion). A single B2 carries me through nearly every gig I've ever played and a pair is louder than I ever want to be. That you need to be louder than a pair of B2s (a single B4) makes me sad for your ears.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I disagree--can you explain why you give this advice? What would be achieved, how would it address his issues?

That's the way I've run my power amps since day one. It'll not address his issues which are too much power for his single cabinet.

You of course are free to disagree. We all opine on what works best for us individually. Running the amp full and controlling the pre is what give you the most clean power out of the total system.

Paul

 

[BassmanPaul]

You are not alone! I am on my second set of replacement drivers in my B2. I am getting hypersensitive to using it anymore. And, yes, I have been very careful with it power-wise. If I crease another driver, I don't want to replace it again. Then I have a cab I can't really do anything with.

As a matter of interest how are you running your B2? Are you attempting to gig with just one?

Paul

 

[g4string]

If you do this get a cabinet with twice the ohms of your B4. That will equalize the power to each speaker. You will no longer be able to bridge.

I still advise a second B4. You've blown two sets of speakers already better to be safe than sorry.

Paul

Paul, thanks for the info......I understand ohms/resistance and amps

Finding another B4 in the classifieds is hard to come by.......B2's pop up more often and are cheaper. If getting one B2 isn't enough, I can always get another. Just trying to be nice to my back, so if possible, I will start with a B2......after all I am powering all of this with a CA9......the heaviest of the heavies.

 

[Kindness]

after all I am powering all of this with a CA9

You really should implement a high pass filter.

 

[g4string]

You really should implement a high pass filter.

I will look into this..........got any recommendations, I have one open space on my rack

 

[JonathanD]

You can find high pass filters that will plug into your effects loop. They look kind of like Female TS to Male TS adapters. Only about $10 each.

I would have to suggest your band get a better PA. An acme 410 with 1000 watts is still capable of being deafeningly (literally) loud. Maybe look into a different monitoring system. Hell, get some headphones for practice and a headphone amp. Seems much easier than luggin' an extra 410 around.

Also, you could try putting the acme on a very sturdy X stand to get it to Ear level.

All the best.

 

[Folmeister]

As a matter of interest how are you running your B2? Are you attempting to gig with just one?

Paul

Only for small gigs if I can't predict the room. There are a couple of venues that I can shake the walls with it alone and a DB750, but I don't take that chance just anywhere. I mostly play it safe by running it in combination, either with my Walkabout combo or with an HT115.

 

[bongomania]

That's the way I've run my power amps since day one. It'll not address his issues which are too much power for his single cabinet.

So, why suggest it if it won't help his problem?

Running the amp full and controlling the pre is what give you the most clean power out of the total system.

Turning down the preamp output does not limit the power amp's output (directly) any more than turning down the power amp's attenuators. Both controls are just passive attenuators in series, there is no cleanliness benefit to using one over the other, unless the preamp output is clipping the power amp input.

directly stolen from Acme's site, this sums it up best........."Lowering the setting of the Level, or Volume control on your power amplifier does not limit it’s ability to produce it’s full power! If a 1000 watt amplifier is only turned halfway up, it does not become a 500 watt amplifer! It is still able to produce it’s full 1000 watts if it gets a “hot” enough input signal"
The way I see it........there is no harm in setting the gain knob full hot on amp and controlling the overall volume with a preamp

Right--no harm, and no difference either! Six of one, half dozen of the other, again with the exception of avoiding clipping at the power amp's input, for which the preamp volume knob really is important. Acme's statement is totally accurate, but it has no bearing on the question of preamp versus power amp attenuators.

 

[Kindness]

I will look into this..........got any recommendations, I have one open space on my rack

I don't. When I use large power amps, I use the filters built into them. For other purposes, I built a high pass filter into a buffer pedal I built a while back.

 

[g4string]

Right--no harm, and no difference either! Six of one, half dozen of the other, again with the exception of avoiding clipping at the power amp's input, for which the preamp volume knob really is important. Acme's statement is totally accurate, but it has no bearing on the question of preamp versus power amp attenuators.

I wasn't insulting you......I can not read your mind. I have no idea what your experience/knowledge level is. Just making sure we're on the same page........I need to look at the Demeter to see if there is an internal input attenuator. Along with needing more volume, I think I am sending a hot than normal signal to the CA9

One more theory that has me thinking.......Since this rig doesn't get that much attention, I am wondering if I properly broke in the speakers since the last time I replaced them. If I didn't do a good 'break-in' and then just start slammin these guys, I can see how I creased the cones. -or- I put too much power to them when I initially broke them in, which caused a slight crease in some of the cones. Then ffwd to this week, putting the cab through the paces finally did them in. ie, like a crack in a levy....Dunno??

 

[bongomania]

Oh hey, I wasn't feeling insulted at all, just trying to set straight what I think are the "facts", to kind of clear away a side issue that wasn't going to help.

 

[jokerjkny]

If you like the tone you have then I say add another cab.

frankly, if they play as loud as you say, another B2 might not be enough. if you dont mind the carry, go for another B4. a bridged ca9 w/ a pair of b4's will most awesome, and most of the metro area will hate you, while all of us here on TB will love you.

[kindergarden cop]do it, do it NOW.[/kindergarden cop]

cool songs, btw. love that ny dolls / t-rex thing you guys have goin' on "big muff".

 

[jokerjkny]

You can find high pass filters that will plug into your effects loop.
(...)

then why buy an acme in the first place?

 

[g4string]

then why buy an acme in the first place?

thats what I was thinking


PS, thanks for props on the songs.....I dig the vibe too

 

[jokerjkny]

Oh hey, I wasn't feeling insulted at all, just trying to set straight what I think are the "facts", to kind of clear away a side issue that wasn't going to help.

yea,

the bongo's usually here to help not harm.

 

[g4string]

frankly, if they play as loud as you say, another B2 might not be enough......

Joker, this has me thinking as I have noticed this in another practice room.....but could it be the room I am practicing. There are NO acoustics, they have padding all over the walls, and its a really small room. In another room like this I used to practice in, I found that I really had to crank my amp to hear myself. However, live on a gig - different story. I always have enough headroom for a gig. Maybe its the room?????