Acme Full Range Series III 112

[KJung]

Ken, if memory serves, you have some Walkabout experience. I'm currently playing through an M6, though considering switching to a Walkabout. Do you feel the parametric EQ on the WA is enough to tame some of the tubby farting, or is it an issue of the Mesa voicing and design? Do you feel the issue is specific to this head/cab combo, or just the nature of the M6?

I do not think any of the Mesa heads would work very well with the Acme. The M6, primarily due to the very deeply voiced low end (that 'non hi passed sub bass extension), and the Walkabout due to a lack of power needed by these very power hungry cabs.

IMO there.

 

[DLM]

That being said, the design of the woofer still gives you similar issues when slapping as the original Acme's. If I have my terms right, it is pretty easy to hit that 'xmin' and 'overextend' that driver on the massive peak resulting from a slap thump (sounds like the driver slamming into the voice coil or something). IME there.

Hmmm...this is a deal breaker for me. Anyone else experience the same?

 

[Aram]

Hmmm...this is a deal breaker for me. Anyone else experience the same?

Not I, but I've never had the cab pushed close to the volumes Ken's describing. I'd say if the kind of music you play requires tons of volume yet you need a small cab, go with the TC.

Otherwise, I'd think this is something some subtle compression could fix?

 

[KJung]

Not I, but I've never had the cab pushed close to the volumes Ken's describing. I'd say if the kind of music you play requires tons of volume yet you need a small cab, go with the TC.

Otherwise, I'd think this is something some subtle compression could fix?

I think compression would help quite a bit. However, there is something in the design of the Acme's IMO and IME, both the originals and the new neo's, that doesn't take kindly to strong peaks you get while slapping or whatever.

I love the Fullrange for what it is, and with the right head (in my case, the Streamliner with that wonderful 'big but controlled and appropriately high passed low end), and the appropriate playing style (I'll call it the old school fat finger tone approach), this cab is magnificent.

If you are a slapper, I cannot recommend these cabs. IMO and IME there.

 

[monsterthompson]

I do not think any of the Mesa heads would work very well with the Acme. The M6, primarily due to the very deeply voiced low end (that 'non hi passed sub bass extension), and the Walkabout due to a lack of power needed by these very power hungry cabs.
IMO there.

Wasn't even thinking about the power hungry nature being too much for the WA.

As a resident expert on the world of super 12 cabs, would you say that the boomy farty bass when matched with a deeply voiced head is similar to what would appear with other super 12s, or is there something more specific to the Acme design?

Based on your experience, are there other amps you would consider avoiding with the Acme because they might get unruly in the low end? I know the mix and match game is tough, and there are so many
combinations. I ask partly because I recently tried out a Streamliner, and expected to love it, based on your posted clips, though I ended up not liking it in person (showroom floor test). I don't recall the cab it was plugged into, but wonder how it would have sounded going through something like the Low B, which I think sounded great on your recording.

 

[tombowlus]

Hmmm...this is a deal breaker for me. Anyone else experience the same?

I'd say use whatever head you want to hit your tone goals, and if the extended lows cause you any difficulty, you can easily add fdeck's Invalid Link Removed to your setup to tame the low end. It is primarily meant for use with upright bass, but I've thrown it in my signal chain on electric rigs, too. A [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] from SFX is another great option.

 

[KJung]

Wasn't even thinking about the power hungry nature being too much for the WA.

As a resident expert on the world of super 12 cabs, would you say that the boomy farty bass when matched with a deeply voiced head is similar to what would appear with other super 12s, or is there something more specific to the Acme design?

Based on your experience, are there other amps you would consider avoiding with the Acme because they might get unruly in the low end? I know the mix and match game is tough, and there are so many
combinations. I ask partly because I recently tried out a Streamliner, and expected to love it, based on your posted clips, though I ended up not liking it in person (showroom floor test). I don't recall the cab it was plugged into, but wonder how it would have sounded going through something like the Low B, which I think sounded great on your recording.

The Acme is a totally different thing. It is 'super' not because of its volume output, but rather because of its amazing low end IMO. Unfortunately, that amazing low end comes with a price.... the need for a lot of power, a well hi passed amp (Genz and the TC RH heads are the only two I know of that pass that test... by well I mean the art of having the bass response of an amp sound big without dumping super deep bass into a cab), and also the need for the limiting circuit of an amp to sound good and musical (again, Genz and TC are great at this, versus the hard clamp of many other heads).

None of the three issues above is key with the other twelves out there. For example, my F500 sounds WONDERFUL with my Thunderchild and the Baer ML112... loud, even, full, etc. With the Acme, it sounds great, but if you dig in, the amp will hit its limiting, which sounds a bit like low level distortion. With the Streamliner, the Acme just sings (I assume if you wanted a more modern tone, the Shuttle Max 9 would also sound great).

Again, the Acme is a unique box, and it works very well if you really go to school on it and get an amp that hits the three criteria listed above (and also if you have a playing style appropriate to the performance of the box.

With my 5 string P, and the Streamliner, the Acme FullRange cab do a moderate size gig, and just provide a wonderful pillow of low end under a band, and still be round and articulate. Slapping my Sadowsky J with my F500 with this cab results in all sorts of mess at even low volumes.

 

[KJung]

I'd say use whatever head you want to hit your tone goals, and if the extended lows cause you any difficulty, you can easily add fdeck's Invalid Link Removed to your setup to tame the low end. It is primarily meant for use with upright bass, but I've thrown it in my signal chain on electric rigs, too. A [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] from SFX is another great option.

That would most likely help quite a bit. Many users of the original Acme's used some sort of external hi passing to make the low end work a bit better.

Again, though, the Acme is a bit of a different beast than any other cab out there, and by the time I'm adding hi passing and compression to try to get where I want to get, I would choose another box. IMO there.

With the right head and playing style and tone goal, the Acme is magnificent though!

 

[tombowlus]

would you say that the boomy farty bass when matched with a deeply voiced head is similar to what would appear with other super 12s, or is there something more specific to the Acme design?

Andy intentionally tunes his cabs to be able to reproduce the fundamental of a low B (31Hz), whereas many other cab manufacturers tune their cabs higher. Without getting into the comparative merits, I will say that it does affect how these various cabs perform.

 

[tombowlus]

That would most likely help quite a bit. Many users of the original Acme's used some sort of external hi passing to make the low end work a bit better.

I have a Micro Thumpinator in my standard pedal board setup. It's small, and easy to use. Of course, for that last gig where I played the Acmes, I did not use my pedal board, but as we have discussed, Genz-Benz has high pass filtering baked right in, so it would have been duplicative, at any rate.

 

[tombowlus]

BTW, Andy has some great material on his website explaining his design goals and some of the science behind them. Go to "Science" on the lefthand column. You also have to dig a bit to get the specs on the Full Range & Flatwound, but if you follow the "introducing the Series III" link, then hit "models," and keep following the links, you'll eventually get to the specs and performance data.

 

[Aram]

I think compression would help quite a bit. However, there is something in the design of the Acme's IMO and IME, both the originals and the new neo's, that doesn't take kindly to strong peaks you get while slapping or whatever.

I love the Fullrange for what it is, and with the right head (in my case, the Streamliner with that wonderful 'big but controlled and appropriately high passed low end), and the appropriate playing style (I'll call it the old school fat finger tone approach), this cab is magnificent.

If you are a slapper, I cannot recommend these cabs. IMO and IME there.

Interesting. I slap very little on gigs these days, but I'm curious if I'd run into the same problems live with my LM2 or GK amps. While I do stand by decoupling the cab from the stage (ie, elevating it, or even tilting it back) to control the low end in boomy rooms...I wonder if that would also help with tightening up the bottom for the slappers out there.

I don't get nearly enough gig time with my Acmes because there's always crappy a backline or mediocre rented gear where I play.

 

[monsterthompson]

Thanks Ken and Tom. I can see some of this being an issue for someone who had bought a head to push more bass out of a cab that isn't voiced specifically for the same goal as the Acme, then grabbed one of these cabs expecting more of a good thing, only to find they have opened a Pandora's box of frequency and response issues.

 

[Aram]

I have a Micro Thumpinator in my standard pedal board setup. It's small, and easy to use. Of course, for that last gig where I played the Acmes, I did not use my pedal board, but as we have discussed, Genz-Benz has high pass filtering baked right in, so it would have been duplicative, at any rate.

Wow, I had never heard of this -- just watched the video on the site and that's really impressive! Is there any drawback to running that unit at all times, or do you ever feel the need to bypass it?

Great tip!

 

[Bluesy Soul]

Not I, but I've never had the cab pushed close to the volumes Ken's describing.

I've pushed both my Flatwound and the FullRange HARD and I've never had that kind of experience with either, but I also don't slap and I don't play with as much upper mid and treble in my EQ as KJ does. Nonetheless, when I adjust the EQ for more upper mid and treble and use a pick, neither Acme has winced--even at outdoor volumes.

I would also echo the comments about the Acme's low end authority or gravitas being clean AND articulate. I think this is the characteristic that prevents it from being problematic on a gig. I actually find that, unlike the Low B-2, I only need to elevate my Flatwound or FullRange for my own stage monitoring purposes.

 

[tombowlus]

Wow, I had never heard of this -- just watched the video on the site and that's really impressive! Is there any drawback to running that unit at all times, or do you ever feel the need to bypass it?

Great tip!

I have not found a scenario where my tone improved by taking it out of the signal chain, so I just leave it in all the time.

 

[KJung]

I have not found a scenario where my tone improved by taking it out of the signal chain, so I just leave it in all the time.

+1 With a well designed hi pass filter, the worst it does is nothing, depending on the rig. Some cabs (like the Acme's) and some heads (like the Mesa M6 and some of the early SWR amps) would very much benefit from this unit in 'non optimal' combinations with certain other pieces of gear.

 

[KJung]

I've pushed both my Flatwound and the FullRange HARD and I've never had that kind of experience with either, but I also don't slap and I don't play with as much upper mid and treble in my EQ as KJ does. Nonetheless, when I adjust the EQ for more upper mid and treble and use a pick, neither Acme has winced--even at outdoor volumes.

I would also echo the comments about the Acme's low end authority or gravitas being clean AND articulate. I think this is the characteristic that prevents it from being problematic on a gig. I actually find that, unlike the Low B-2, I only need to elevate my Flatwound or FullRange for my own stage monitoring purposes.

+1 It is hard to provide an accurate picture of the performance of the Fullrange/Flatwound without sounding a bit negative at times.

Again, if you match them with an appropriately voiced head, and/or do not use 'extreme' technique (hard slapping, massive low end EQ), there is nothing else like them on the market, and IMO the 112's are a significant improvement versus the originals.

With my 5 string P played fingerstyle, and with the beautiful low end voicing of the Streamliner (big and full, but totally controlled through expert hi pass design) AND the very musical limiting of the Genz heads (i.e., you can push them to the rails and they still sound good), the 4ohm Fullrange is a total keeper for me.

Wonderful box, but different than anything else out there (for better or worse, depending on the player, tone goal and other pieces of the signal chain).

Edit: And, per Tom's and others' posts, a good external hi pass filter and a high quality compressor set to 'hard limit' would open up the usage of the Acme to almost everyone.

Hope this all makes sense.

 

[DLM]

...by the time I'm adding hi passing and compression to try to get where I want to get, I would choose another box. IMO there.
!

+1. While I have the power to run a stack of these with a MB SD1200, if they can't be a viable replacement for my Berg AE212 in terms of SPL AND slap transients, then I'm thinking I should look elsewhere for a modular set-up.

 

[rpsands]

I'd expect the maximum volume of an AE212 should have about 3db of advantage over a pair of roundwounds, in its bandwidth. That's a ballpark figure and will depend on individual circumstances.

The AE212 is about 6db more sensitive (much, much moreso in some areas) across the board, but should have about half the overall power handling. So the Acmes gain 3db from extra power handling, but still give up 3db from sensitivity sacrifices.

Again, ballpark.